Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, Maybe Manual Transmission?

Jeff Lange

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
4,985
Likes
12
Location
Edmonton, Canada
#1
Toyota Supra gets turbocharged inline-six, no manual transmission
Look for a low center-of-gravity and a 50:50 weight distribution.



The 2018 Geneva Motor Show finally brought us the long awaited return of the Toyota Supra, sort of. Initials details are scarce, but a roundtable with Toyota engineer Tetsuya Tada — the man behind both the Supra and the Toyota 86 — revealed a number of new details, both good and bad. The Supra will in fact get a turbocharged inline-six, but those hoping for a manual transmission are out of luck.

We've been wondering for years what's been under the car's hood. The partnership with BMW (the Supra will share more than a passing resemblance to the new BMW Z4) gave us hope that the inline-six would return, and Tada assures us that a Supra without an inline-six is no Supra. He also made it clear that the car should be relatively easy to tune, though how far you can go on a stock bottom-end remains to be seen.

A manual transmission seems to be off the table. Tada said that Supra fans don't think it's a huge requirement, though we have a hard time believing him on that point. As it's likely a BMW engine, look for some variant of the ZF eight-speed automatic or possibly a dual-clutch transmission. There won't be a transaxle either, though Tada says the Supra will have perfect 50:50 weight distribution. It'll also have a lower center-of-gravity than the 86, though how it achieves either of those things with a longer, taller engine and a shorter wheelbase is unclear. Black magic, we say.

Like the 86, Tada wants the Supra to be a sharpened sportscar that is measured on things like fun-to-drive or ease-of-maneuver rather than ultimate performance. We won't be surprised if, like the 86, the Supra puts out a bit less horsepower than some were hoping for. This is a break from Supras of old. The original cars were always GT cars that punched far above their weight. The fourth-gen model was making 320 horsepower in the early 1990s. Tada wouldn't mention specific competitors, but he did say they buy every new Porsche that hits the street.

The partnership with BMW is an interesting one. BMW will launch the Z4 first, unsurprising considering the German brand seems to have led most of the development. Tada said that it took two years for the two automakers to really start clicking. It must be a culture clash between the Germans and Japanese, as apparently the Subaru partnership was a hit right from the start.

We don't know when the final production car will be shown, but look for the GR Supra to hit tracks later this year.

Source: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/06/toyota-supra-turbo-six-no-manual-confirmed/
 

Jeff Lange

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
4,985
Likes
12
Location
Edmonton, Canada
#2
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, No Manual Transmission

Here's to hoping the Z4 components are mostly bolt-on for the pedals, hydraulics, etc.

Jeff
 

Enraged

A HG job took HOW long??
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
1,864
Likes
8
Location
Victoria, BC, Canada
#3
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, No Manual Transmission

no manual? Way to go Toyota, you just guaranteed a large portion of Supra fans will not buy the car. If I wanted an auto Toyota I'd buy a Camry.

So now what are they competing against? Mustang/Camaro/370Z/etc all offer manuals, and likely more power. The only thing Toyota has going for it at the moment is the weight.
 

Jeff Lange

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
4,985
Likes
12
Location
Edmonton, Canada
#4
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, No Manual Transmission?

This article seems to offer a different take on it:

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...a-get-a-manual-transmission-there-s-hope.html

“It makes perfect sense” for the new Supra to have a manual, Tetsuya Tada, Toyota’s chief engineer, told AutoGuide.com during an interview at the Geneva Motor Show. “I will try my hardest,” he promised. Why? Toyota isn’t chasing lap times with the new Supra. Tada-san said he’s working hard to make sure the car is engaging and fun to drive and have “ease of maneuverability,” which is more important than “quantifiable figures,” he said through a translator. This means there’s hope!

He was speaking through a translator, perhaps information was misunderstood by Autoblog?

Jeff
 

Enraged

A HG job took HOW long??
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
1,864
Likes
8
Location
Victoria, BC, Canada
#5
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, No Manual Transmission?

Toyota should just issue a press release with some details to stop the speculation.
 

Piratetip

Far From Maddening Crowds
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
1,208
Likes
30
Location
MKE, WI
#6
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, No Manual Transmission?

Hmm. Will be interesting to see what they do.

Fun to drive and priority over quantifiable figures to me points toward manual trans.
I bet it's going to be a automatic with paddle shifters available giving the driver a hint of shift control. Similar to the GTR.

But I hope I am wrong.
 

suprarx7nut

YotaMD.com author
Authorized Seller
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
3,875
Likes
12
Location
Arizona
#7
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, No Manual Transmission?

I am liking the details and design more than I expected. Inline 6, TT, built with some degree of awareness for tuning... yes please.

I'm anxious to see more details. I thought today was going to have more formal announcements, but I guess they're milking the hype for another year...
 

JDMMA70

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
2,590
Likes
6
Location
Houston
#8
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, No Manual Transmission?

no manual? Way to go Toyota, you just guaranteed a large portion of Supra fans will not buy the car. If I wanted an auto Toyota I'd buy a Camry.

So now what are they competing against? Mustang/Camaro/370Z/etc all offer manuals, and likely more power. The only thing Toyota has going for it at the moment is the weight.
Let's be fair, most Supra fans wont be able to afford the car when it comes out especially with the dealer markups. I think Toyota is making the right choice not focusing on power or speed anymore.

I am liking the details and design more than I expected. Inline 6, TT, built with some degree of awareness for tuning... yes please.

I'm anxious to see more details. I thought today was going to have more formal announcements, but I guess they're milking the hype for another year...
Same here, a lot of people are mad that it isn't "living up" to the MK4, but people quickly forget the only reason we got the Supra to begin with was the Japanese economic bubble. Those days are long gone, and Toyota isn't the same Toyota from 1985. I trust Tada-san will make the right choices. So far the exterior is doing the Supra name justice, I quickly noticed its main influence was the grandaddy of the Supra, the 2000GT. The interior will be all Toyota so we can be sure it will most likely have a similar design to previous Supras. The transmission he will probably have to fight with Toyota to get approved. I think the outcry from the media will be enough to get the green light. This isn't a RC-F or a LC, this is something much more special.
 

suprarx7nut

YotaMD.com author
Authorized Seller
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
3,875
Likes
12
Location
Arizona
#9
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, No Manual Transmission?

Let's be fair, most Supra fans wont be able to afford the car when it comes out especially with the dealer markups. I think Toyota is making the right choice not focusing on power or speed anymore.



Same here, a lot of people are mad that it isn't "living up" to the MK4, but people quickly forget the only reason we got the Supra to begin with was the Japanese economic bubble. Those days are long gone, and Toyota isn't the same Toyota from 1985. I trust Tada-san will make the right choices. So far the exterior is doing the Supra name justice, I quickly noticed its main influence was the grandaddy of the Supra, the 2000GT. The interior will be all Toyota so we can be sure it will most likely have a similar design to previous Supras. The transmission he will probably have to fight with Toyota to get approved. I think the outcry from the media will be enough to get the green light. This isn't a RC-F or a LC, this is something much more special.
I think your first point may have been true a decade ago, but in 2018 the most dedicated portion of the Supra crowd is probably 30-50 years old and standing by with mature bank accounts ready to absorb a hit if it means snagging the modern iteration of an iconic car of their younger years (assuming of course, it's true to its roots which is yet to be determined here). The Mk3 is a classic at this point of a similar age as the 69 Mustang was in 2001.

I'd like to see what data would drive them to consider ax-ing the manual. Are most BRZ/GT86's sold with auto's? Does BMW not sell tons of manual M2/3/4 cars? I do think there is a big divide though, between the enthusiast market and the market that actually buys brand new cars off the showroom floor. Toyota (and other manufacturers) are really aiming at one of those groups far more than the other...
 

JDMMA70

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
2,590
Likes
6
Location
Houston
#10
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, No Manual Transmission?

I think your first point may have been true a decade ago, but in 2018 the most dedicated portion of the Supra crowd is probably 30-50 years old and standing by with mature bank accounts ready to absorb a hit if it means snagging the modern iteration of an iconic car of their younger years (assuming of course, it's true to its roots which is yet to be determined here). The Mk3 is a classic at this point of a similar age as the 69 Mustang was in 2001.

I'd like to see what data would drive them to consider ax-ing the manual. Are most BRZ/GT86's sold with auto's? Does BMW not sell tons of manual M2/3/4 cars? I do think there is a big divide though, between the enthusiast market and the market that actually buys brand new cars off the showroom floor. Toyota (and other manufacturers) are really aiming at one of those groups far more than the other...

I would have to say your first point only holds water if we're under the assumption that ALL of the Supra crowd have a careers to facilitate buying a toy such as this. Some MK4 owners are poorer than I am lmao.

My understanding is the sales of the 86 are 50/50 split between Auto and Manual.
 

Enraged

A HG job took HOW long??
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
1,864
Likes
8
Location
Victoria, BC, Canada
#11
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, Maybe Manual Transmission

It's funny that the MKV might be cheaper than the current market MKIV. Or maybe the MKIV market will tank?
 

plaaya69

87T Supra
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
1,207
Likes
38
Location
Lake County, IL
#12
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, Maybe Manual Transmission

Which company will be the first to offer a 2jz engine swap kit in it?
 

Piratetip

Far From Maddening Crowds
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
1,208
Likes
30
Location
MKE, WI
#13
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, Maybe Manual Transmission

Which company will be the first to offer a 2jz engine swap kit in it?
CXracing. Missing about 50% of the required parts to do it right. :D
 
Likes: mobes

suprarx7nut

YotaMD.com author
Authorized Seller
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
3,875
Likes
12
Location
Arizona
#14
Re: Some Production-Car Details Emerge: Turbo Straight Six, Maybe Manual Transmission

I would have to say your first point only holds water if we're under the assumption that ALL of the Supra crowd have a careers to facilitate buying a toy such as this. Some MK4 owners are poorer than I am lmao.

My understanding is the sales of the 86 are 50/50 split between Auto and Manual.
Well it's all generalization, but I think it's safe to assume the older a group is, the higher their average income. If anyone's got money to burn on a sports car it's the 30-50 age bracket.

Interesting on the 86. With those figures it seems hard to imagine a Supra crowd would want nothing to do with a manual.

It's funny that the MKV might be cheaper than the current market MKIV. Or maybe the MKIV market will tank?
Lol, that's actually a very likely possibility I hadn't thought about. A really clean mk4 TT 6spd will probably be more than the base price of the MKV, unless we're surprised by a higher MSRP.

CXracing. Missing about 50% of the required parts to do it right. :D
Lol.