removing egr

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stephm

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#1
hi guys was reading tech tips and was wondering how do i go about removing air con and egr as a lot of things ive read suggest doing away with the egr valve and my personal preference is not to have aircon any tips would be much appreciated thanks
 

airhead04

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#3
there is a port on the back of the head, and on the back of the intake. youll need to block those off if you remove the egr. and underneath the intake are some vacuum lines that will need to be rerouted.
 

RazoE

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#6
Definitely keep it, the USDM ECU is tuned for all that, and (I THINK) JetJock or Jdub did a test, and showed EGR actually cooled down the temps quite a bit, so it's up to you..
 

seacombe2379

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#7
Go for it fella EGR is not a requirement on our ecu yoi have prob done it now anyhow lol


been runnin no egr for a while now and no change at all apart from no shitted up manifold :D
 

mecevans

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#8
When you remove egr you get....

More detonation
Lower gas mileage
hotter egt's

The EGR valves robs no power whatsoever. It Burns extra unburned fuel and reduces Nox emmissions. Its only open when cruising and its an inert gas so it has no effect on combustion other than absorbing heat from the air/ fuel mixture giving you more power.
 

Kai

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#10
Poodles - this is someone from the UK. We don't run on piss-water fuel in the UK - minimum you can get is 95 RON. Our cars are NOT US-spec ECU's. Early cars here didn't have EGR at all. We also require no charcoal canister. Please, before you post up in a thread what can and can't be done, at least LOOK at WHERE the user is.

To the OP - tear out the EGR to your hearts content. You will have no ill effects from doing so. I'm doing it on mine, and some of the big-power guys in the UK have also removed it. None of them have reported any problems. All the EGR ever did in my car, was clog the cold start injector with crap.

In addition, EGR is not a requirement to pass the emissions in the UK (two speed idle test), and with EGR completely removed, and a de-cat downpipe, you're WELL UNDER the permitted emissions for even the 1992 regulations. Yes, you end up with marginally hotter EGT's. No you don't lose mileage. You won't have any more or less detonation than you have at the moment.
 

Poodles

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#11
-Your fuel is no better, you grade it differently. It's like saying 2.54 centimeters is more than 1 inch...
-ECU is tuned for EGR or not. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a USDM ECU or not, it's going to have the same advanced timing and lack of fuel because it's expecting the EGR to be there (because if it didn't it would run like shit with the EGR)
 

Kai

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#12
Poodles - 95 RON is equivalent of 91.5 PON. Average in the US is what, 87/88/89 octane?

I've *NEVER* heard of anyone removing EGR getting detonation on our fuel. I've never in my life experienced it, and i've run more than a few turbocharged cars, none of them designed for EGR either. Our vacuum setup is different from yours too. There are at least two UK spec cars running around that never had EGR installed from the factory. Grey plug ECU's, same numbers as the rest of us - and.....oh look they've not exploded yet, or caused any problems whatsoever.
 

Poodles

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#13
High octane here is 93, like I said, it's no better (unless you're speaking of california where they have shit gasoline)

I'm telling you, it's either tuned for EGR or not. If it's not tuned for the EGR, it would cause issues if the EGR was there.

There are 20 different part numbers for ECU's outside of NATO for 89+ alone, cut that in half for manual and AT and you're still at 10 different revisions. It's not as simple as a grey plug or yellow plug.
 

Kai

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#14
Okay - what part are you NOT getting? THERE ARE NO ISSUES. If there were, there would be plenty of people complaining about it. I see none. Every single person within the UK that's removed EGR has had *NO* problems. There are FOUR ECU's for the UK. Two Yellow, Two Grey. One Auto, One Manual. That's it.

All 1989 to 1992 manuals have the following part numbers:

UK 7M-GTE M/T ECU on my desk - P/N: 89661-14390.
JDM 7M-GTE M/T ECU - P/N: 89661-24100
USDM 7M-GTE M/T ECU - P/N: 89661-14030

The JDM and UK ones are virtually identical, the USDM ones are somewhat different. All the maps are the same. Only two subroutines differ - one of which is for EGR. The JDM and UK ECU's differ only in the fact that the ECU has ONE resistor different. Code is the same between the two, including the provision of the EGR subroutine. The code for the USDM EGR is DIFFERENT.

What the EGR subroutine does is tell the ECU how to compensate for the inclusion of exhaust gases into the intake charge. It calculates throttle position against engine load, switches the VSV if need be and the ECU will alter its fuelling accordingly. The difference in the code is the *degree of compensation*.

Just to clarify, i was *not* suggesting that our 95 RON is by any means 'high octane' - thats the LOWEST GRADE we have. High octane here would be considered 100+ octane. Tell me Poodles - why have an EGR subroutine working on worse case scenario 87 octane fuel, when that grade of fuel isn't EVER going to be put in the system? It's not. It works out its subroutine based on 91 octane fuel for us. As a result, timing is not as affected as yours.

My position remains the same. Remove it, the OP will see no issues. It's been done before, plenty of people have done it and suffered NO ill effects whatsoever, not even a thrown code. I've done enough research on this to warrant doing it to mine without any worry whatsoever. And yes, before you ask, i *HAVE* read through all of the posts from jetjock, read every single post from 3p14159265 on the subject (regarding the ECU) and gone through the disassembled program code in IDA.
 

Poodles

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#15
I doesn't throw a code, it just blows headgaskets.

Yes, it's a single resister that swaps between EGR or non-EGR operation (even for USDM ECU's). Do the resister mod and be done with it, or compromise your tune.

Our lowest grade is 91-92 RON, also keep in mind that that octane is NOT recommended in the owner's manual.
 

Kai

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#16
Poodles - there's not a SHRED of evidence of that happening in ANYONES vehicle. How many UK supra owners do you know, Poodles? How many of them do you know that have taken EGR off? Out of those, how many of them have had a headgasket blow as a result of removing the EGR? You're speculating and grasping at straws. What may be the case for a vehicle in the US does NOT mean the same is true for a vehicle in a different country, on different fuel, with a different ECU.

Do i have to keep reminding you that this is for a UK SPEC CAR with a UK SPEC ECU. We're NOT talking about a US vehicle. If it WERE a US Spec vehicle, we wouldn't be having this discussion. For the US - EGR stays. For the UK? BIN IT.
 

Poodles

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#17
EGR functions exactly the same on both cars, so yes it's going to have an issue on either ECU.

It's like the UK members swearing by their strut tower bars. A thousand screaming idiots can't be wrong, right?
 

mecevans

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#18
Put the car on the dyno and do a IM240. Then unplug that egr and see what happens to those NOx emmisions.
 

Kai

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#19
Poodles - i'm tired of arguing with you. The EGR does work in the same way, i never said otherwise, i said the *DEGREE OF COMPENSATION* is different. As for calling us 'screaming idiots', despite the fact that of those that have done it, not a SINGLE person has had a problem or an 'issue', despite your vehement protests. I'm not talking about doing this on USDM cars, with USDM ECU's.

NOx will be different, yes. This makes bugger all difference to us, seeing as they're NOT EVEN TESTED. All our Emissions tests for, are CO (3.5% limit) and HC (1200ppm limit). NOx isn't even tested on pre-1995 vehicles.

Do i have to keep mentioning - UK SPEC CAR, BEING USED IN THE UK? It's like you don't read...
 

mecevans

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#20
Just because its not tested does NOT mean it doesnt matter. Why do you care so much about a goverment standard test when it has no use in real world every day driving? Where is your data? I guess you should tune your car stationary then too right ? :nono:
 

Kai

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#21
If it doesn't pass the test, its not road legal. Simple as that. We're not talking about tuning at all.
 

CyFi6

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#22
Can anyone provide some info on what exactly is different between USDM and JDM ECU as far as differences in the tune because of the lack of EGR? It just seems like there's so many people spouting off that EGR WILL CAUSE detonation because of the timing in the stock USDM ECU, yet I have never seen an ounce of proof that it will cause damage. The closest thing I have found is the info jdub had about exhaust temps rising without EGR.

Think about this...
Consider you are running 550's and a Lexus AFM. Right there, your timing adjustments are way out of whack compared to stock. As you scaled the AFM, timing got all jacked up. Nobody complains of harsh detonation and engine destruction during cruise and low loads running this setup, so why are the minute changes in timing for when the ECU expects exhaust gas in the intake regarded as highly dangerous?

I'm not saying that there is no issue or arguing that what people say is wrong...I just don't know how everyone formed that conclusion and what exactly that information is based off of...there has to be some data somewhere for people to conclude that removing EGR on a USDM ecu is dangerous.
 

CBatstone

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#23
Can anyone provide some info on what exactly is different between USDM and JDM ECU as far as differences in the tune because of the lack of EGR? It just seems like there's so many people spouting off that EGR WILL CAUSE detonation because of the timing in the stock USDM ECU, yet I have never seen an ounce of proof that it will cause damage. The closest thing I have found is the info jdub had about exhaust temps rising without EGR.
I'd love to know the answer to this... I just bought a JDM ECU and installed it this morning with the EGR Removed and I still get a big lean spot in mid-throttle 3-4k RPM.
 

ForcedTorque

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#24
I just read this entire thread due to the latest update, and I have one comment for Kai.

It doesn't matter if the car and ECU is from Neptune (or anywhere else), If the car came from the factory with an EGR, then I would bet the ECU is probably tuned for it.
 

1jz-soarer

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#25
Just like the people said above no real benefit from it and all you will get is scarred hands and memories from trying to get the bolts back there that will make you cry yourself to sleep at night trust me not fun at all dumbest thing Ive ever done.
 

Kai

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#26
Okay guys - i'm closing this thread for two reasons

1) This thread was finished with back in June, and didn't need to be re-opened, the OP likely took the info presented and acted on it by now.
2) We're dragging the thread off on a tangent, and if you want to argue EGR/no-EGR all over again, this isn't the place to do it.
 
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