New DriftMotion CPS Magnet Mod & Digital CPS Upgrade ???

plaaya69

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#1

Piratetip

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#3
Interesting modification they came up with.

I guess the hall effect sensor retrofit makes sense if your existing CPS VR pickup coils are shot.
Its about the same price as a new CPS.

This could be a good candidate for good CPS housing I have lying around with shot coils.

Though you must be running a standalone to switch to a square wave output.

Another option for those using a stock CPS with a standalone:
You can switch from an analog VR output on the coils to a digital output.
All you need is a Dual VR Conditioning Board from jbperf.com...its only $40.
Won't require any internal modifications on the CPS.
Some standalones struggle with VR signals, so this could be a good modification.
VR signal quality is highly affected by speed, where hall effect has a good signal at all times.
Would of course need to change the standalone ecu CPS settings to accommodate VR to Hall..
 
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plaaya69

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#5
Awesome tip on that dual VR conditioning board piratetip.

I wish I would have waited to buy a remain A1-Cardone CPS unit and get that digital CPS upgrade instead but that lifetime warranty made me buy one on the spot. I just bought that magnet mod and my remain CPS unit runs good but once maybe every 7 to 10 seconds you might hear a very slight miss or two. I have a older CPS unit in my parts box and I can tell the remain CPS runs a lot better but I will test both CPS units and see what the results are with the magnet mod on both.
 
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Piratetip

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#6
I would be careful using the "magnet mod".
Does not look like a good idea to me.

1. Just sticking it there and using no type of adhesive sounds like a good way to trash your cps if it gets dislodged and fly's around inside.
2. The stock magnet and its poles are aligned in the center of the cps pickup coil (winding).
Sticking a 2nd magnet to the outside of the existing magnet and coil could totally change the output timing and shape of the signal.
The shape of the signal could also be reversed as you are adding 2 more magnet poles perpendicular to the existing ones.
 

tissimo

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#7
I went with the hall/digital cps upgrade (I haven't received it yet). I was toying with the idea of a crank wheel and sensor, but was a lot of hassle. I doubt I'll run cams (upgraded springs) and will be relatively low power, so the cps should be fine. Now I just need to finish putting the car together.
 

suprarx7nut

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#8
I would be careful using the "magnet mod".
Does not look like a good idea to me.

1. Just sticking it there and using no type of adhesive sounds like a good way to trash your cps if it gets dislodged and fly's around inside.
2. The stock magnet and its poles are aligned in the center of the cps pickup coil (winding).
Sticking a 2nd magnet to the outside of the existing magnet and coil could totally change the output timing and shape of the signal.
The shape of the signal could also be reversed as you are adding 2 more magnet poles perpendicular to the existing ones.
Good points. I'd love to see a side by side comparison of the signal on an O-scope. Seems like that would need to be done during development of this sort of product.

I can also picture the magnets flying at redline RPMs. Throw in a violent jostle from a bump in the road/track and you might have a neat little grenade. For it to be strong enough to hold without any mechanical fastener that would be one hell of a magnet.
 

Piratetip

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#9
Someone from driftmotion did post up a video with an osillscope on the output level peaks between the stock vs/ with magnet stuck on it.

But what they did not compare or maybe totally overlooked:
-Signal timing
-Total Shape of the Sine Wave
-Signal integrity across the full RPM range
-Signal cross talk / any interference with the coil next to it?

Ect...
 

seoul4korea

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#10
Someone from driftmotion did post up a video with an osillscope on the output level peaks between the stock vs/ with magnet stuck on it.

But what they did not compare or maybe totally overlooked:
-Signal timing
-Total Shape of the Sine Wave
-Signal integrity across the full RPM range
-Signal cross talk / any interference with the coil next to it?

Ect...

It was Aaron from Driftmotion
 

Enraged

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#11
what does the jdperf VR conditioner do? Let's you use VR sensors if you need a Hall input?

I need to run VR sensors (AEM v1), and I've been struggling for ages on how to get a better signal. Closed up the air gap, next on the list is shielded wiring. I'm open to suggestions though.
 

Piratetip

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#12
Correct.
It conditions the signal from a VR analog waveform to a digital output square wave like a hall sensor would output.
The crank/cam signal timing and tuning would need to be modified to accommodate this, since they aren't triggered the same way.

Yeah the digital signal will also help with low RPM signal quality as well, since the VR signal quality can be low at lower rpm's.

The AEM v1 only allows input of VR signal?
Seems like it should be able to take in multiple types of cam/crank signals, no?
 

Enraged

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#13
In their infinite wisdom, they made the plug and play 87-88 AEM v1 hardwired for VR sensors only. A few years ago I contacted them, and apparently you can modify the board to access the Hall input, but that's beyond my ability. Now whenever I contact them, I get the canned response that they no longer support the product.

The last info I got: http://aemelectronics.com/?q=forum/epm-and-v1-compatible
 

Piratetip

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Enraged

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#15
I'm at the point now that I'll probably just buy a new standalone. The car runs with the AEM, but whenever I go to a bigger turbo I'll probably switch to something more modern.
 

te72

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#16
I'm at the point now that I'll probably just buy a new standalone. The car runs with the AEM, but whenever I go to a bigger turbo I'll probably switch to something more modern.
After having a V1 crap out on me, I would recommend the new standalone approach. Engine management has come a LONG way in 20 years. ;)
 

Enraged

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#17
Yup.

My plan at the moment is get the car back on the road as is (adding a new 75mm throttle body and linkage setup), and then maybe in the summer get an Ecumaster Classic and the Driftmotion CPS.

I think the V1 is fine for what it is, the price I paid was fair, and the software is easy to use, but I'd like some of the newer features that modern systems have.
 

plaaya69

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#18
I finally received the CPS Magnet in the mail. I tested this magnet on both my new remain CPS and a old CPS in my parts box as well as do two separate cold starts/full engine warm ups with revving up the motor as well. For me I did not notice much of a difference with either CPS. It may have ran slightly better but I can not say for sure as the motor already runs like new. I do know it did not run weird or give any problems with the magnet installed. Not recommended but I also removed the magnet and installed it while the motor was running and no difference was noticed with that either.

This magnet is super strong but I put some epoxy on the end to make sure it does not move. I will leave the magnet on for now and see what happens.

 
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te72

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#19
I think the V1 is fine for what it is, the price I paid was fair, and the software is easy to use, but I'd like some of the newer features that modern systems have.
Capability wise, yeah, it's not bad for a basic standalone. I mean, it can do some neat stuff, but by modern standards, "basic" is appropriate. I was more referring to the hardware itself. That ECU is getting long in the tooth, and it wasn't built to OEM standards I'm sure. Hypothetically speaking, it would really suck if your ecu crapped out on you and you lost your tune somewhere on a road trip.
 

supraguy@aol

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#21
I ordered the same magnet, and gave it a shot.
Saw no difference whatsoever. But then again, I haven't had any sort of misfire issues anyway.
 

Jonnymkiii

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#22
I am running an AEM v2 standalone and I was having starting problems. When the car would start, it was tuned and ran great, so the issue was the signal from the CPS at low RMPs during start. I eboxied in the magnet mod and I can consistently start the car now, so from my perspective with a stand-alone, it made a difference.

I'm doing the digital conversion on the CPS next, so I'll report back how that works out.
 

Jonnymkiii

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#23
I have installed the digital CPS kit and have the car up and running and it works as advertised. If you have starting issues with a standalone, I highly recommend this product!

I've always have had consistency issues with starting on the AEM v2, which has kept me on the MAP-ECU piggyback for most of the past ~4 years. The first thing I tried was the magnet mod and I noticed an immediate difference because now my car would start with the AEM. However, I still had starting issues if I had been driving the car around for a while. The signal strength of a 30 year old CPS will vary and I'm guessing mine was on the low end.

A couple weeks ago my digital cps arrived and it is a very nicely designed and built piece of hardware. It fits well over the existing CPS and it is well manufactured and looks nice to boot. And this fixed my starting issues! Now, 60% of the time, it starts every time! Sorry,, I couldn't resist the quote; but seriously, it consistently starts now with the AEM, which it has never done, so I'm ecstatic to have that problem solved.

So with all of that said, here are some things that I learned along the way with this cps mod:

- The only instruction are what is on the website; if you have questions beyond that, call Driftmotion
- Unless you are comfortable tuning your standalone, you will have to also procure the $100 remote tuning service on Driftmotion to get your car running
- Their tuner is courteous, professional and quick to respond; it was a good experience and great customer service
- After going through it, IMO, the tuning price is a bit high, but mine went smoothly and if it doesn't, they will spend more time with you, making it worth it. I'm not complaining though.. I'm stocked that I'm running off a hall sensor now :)
- The tuner will only be able to answer questions about the CPS and the tuning of it; tuning is his swimlane; not installation, etc.
- I just want to reiterate my experience with the tuner was great and if you need help, still worth the $$ to get it working right
- In order to get the wiring harness to fit behind the CPS, you will need to replace the plastic wiring cover for the wires with one that is 3/8". Otherwise, the stock plastic cover will prevent the CPS from inserting all the way into the head.
- I also had to cut back a bit of length from the plastic cover for the wiring harness that goes above the timing belt cover. The wiring harness wiring bundle comes out where the CPS hall sensor and wires are and is a tight fit. I made a little more room for the wires by doing this.

I am happy with this CPS mod and recommend it to anyone having starting or otherwise signal strength related issues with your stock CPS. Kudos to Driftmotion for their continued innovation with the Supra family and especially the mkiii model.
 

plaaya69

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#24
Good to hear you are liking the new digital CPS kit jonny. I still wish this digital CPS kit was around a few months before it came out because I got a remain CPS unit from RockAuto then. This digital CPS kit would be great with my ECU Masters standalone but the lifetime warranty on that OEM remain CPS unit pulled me in lol.
 

Hybrid

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plaaya69

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#27
I do like to save money but I also like to support the suppliers that are supporting the Supra. The DirftMotion magnet is super strong and there is a top and bottom so you have to install it correctly. If you must know the dimensions I can get them to you in about a week because I am busy at the moment with other projects/work and the CPS magnet has been installed on my Supra.
 

MarkIII4Me

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#28
Installed the magnet in my CPS and noticed no discernible improvement. I still get little "pop pops" from my muffler at idle, which I always assumed were slight misfires, but who knows, maybe it's the cams.
 

plaaya69

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#29
Installed the magnet in my CPS and noticed no discernible improvement. I still get little "pop pops" from my muffler at idle, which I always assumed were slight misfires, but who knows, maybe it's the cams.
I still get that in a small amounts also even with multiple CPS units, brand new wiring kit from CPS to new standalone (ECU Masters standalone powering ignition coils also). Not a big deal but it is definitely sounds like a super light misfire even with fresh plugs/wires and new engine wiring harness.
 

3p141592654

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#30
I have never seen the stock ecu miss a CPS signal, NE or GX. It has very robust signal processing with some custom components for the CPS reluctor sense circuits. I could imaging the standalones not being as good though.
 

vibu

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#31
Got the problem with driftmotion hall effect CPS and AEM V1 too (firing only one coil). Is there any solution with V1 or only new ECU? If new, what is good and priced well at the moment.
 

Enraged

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#32
you can open it up and change some wiring, I never felt comfortable doing it though.

You could try to find a VR sensor with the same thread pitch

Honestly, my experience with AEM has totally turned me off on their products. I'll be switching to a difference ECU at some point.
 
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vibu

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#33
Why in AEM PRO softwere cam/crank wizard has an option AEM EPM, (it uses hall effect too) if it cant work with it?
 

emericaskater285

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#35
I can also picture the magnets flying at redline RPMs. Throw in a violent jostle from a bump in the road/track and you might have a neat little grenade. For it to be strong enough to hold without any mechanical fastener that would be one hell of a magnet.
Bought 2 one for spare, one for my aem v1 car, magnet is super strong by its self, im not running it with epoxy or plan to, it hasnt moved yet.


Every 7m car ive owned that has been modded on aem or stock ignition has had a slight miss at idle (my white car used to have issues, but its on ms3pro and 1zz coils, with custom cam and crank triggers, and 0 miss). I threw the magnet on my black supra, and it helped quite a bit at idle, it still has some hiccups, but its noticeably better with less miss at idle. Figured it would be a quick easy fix, and it is for the most part. This winter itll probably get a microsquirt and 1zz coils with a crank trigger since tuner studio is so much more user friendly.
 

adampecush

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#36
anyone try the magnet mod on the G1 or G2 VR sensors? From my reading, it seems as though idle misfires have been traced back to these sensors.
 

3p141592654

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#37
Based on my knowledge of the ECU code the G1 G2 inputs would be very unlikey to cause misfires. They are redundant and lack of a G pulse would not cause the existing crank position to be lost. Really, you could have a single Gx pulse during cranking and the ECU would be fine for the rest of the drive with the Gx inputs disabled completely.

In my experience idle and low speed misfires are usually from a leaky EGR.
 

Enraged

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#38
Sorry to say, but nope. I deleted the EGR, still had the same issues. Changed to AEM, still have the same issue. It's likely a combination of lack of shielding, old sensors that have been through thousands of heat cycles, old wires (frayed/crack insulation and broken wires), etc.

Does anyone know the thread size of the sensor that the DM CPS upgrade uses?
 

quickstudy

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#39
I've also noticed what sounds like misfire at idle. I took my cps apart, tested the signal on a scope, checked clearances, saw no difference in idle. Also added a ground for the ignitor. Also made a rack for the spark plugs to observe them sparking out of they cylinders when cranking, they fire perfectly. Compression test also good. Timing set to stock. I'm sure my idle issues are fuel mixture related. Ignition runs smoothly over 1200 rpm. I'm beginning to think aftermarket injectors have trouble with low voltage. My RC 660 low impedance injectors have significantly delayed open times at 11 vs 14 V, and at low load with low open times, i'm thinking that could lead to lean misfires at slow idle. I have stock ECU and Emanage
 

3p141592654

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#40
I've datalogged many hours of ECU data and never see any issues with CPS signals. The ECU processing of the VR sensors is extremely robust.

Assuming all systems are working ok (injectors EGR, compression) then my best guess is its an artifact of the idle stabilization routine in the ECU that adjust timing on the fly to keep the idle rpm stable. That routine is enabled if the IDL switch in the TPS is on.

Also, my gas analyzer says that its not a misfire because HC emissions stay low.