NA vs Turbo cams

YoNkErS87t

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#1
N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

What is the correct timing for N/a cams in a 7mgte :confused: or does it go by the Ecu :confused: If so than I should just set it at the factory setting.

Someone please help. thanx
 

YoNkErS87t

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#3
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

Thanx. I was just wondering if the N/a cams would need a different timing set.

So I guess the factory spec would be fine.
 

Squid699

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#4
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

just make sure you check your valve clearances, as you would any time you change your cams or mess with the valves and do the cam timing as per TSRM. Haven't had any issues with mine....
 

jester1341

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#6
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

i read the cams duration and all is the same NA and turbo. i know the turboA cams are 110 duration as apposed to Aspec turbo cams being 100[pretty sure]

i also would like to know if you notice anything with NA cams[have two sets out back and a head that is off the car and waitin to go on........easy swap ;)]

john
 

Squid699

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#7
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

kinda hard for me to notice a difference when I didn't have a turbo to have a baseline with. The joys of doing a conversion with a slightly modded full rebuild ;)
 

supra90turbo

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#8
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

lol. i was about to say the same type of thing squid.
something to the effect of:

"yeah. ask squid. the n/a cam on his turbo engine was a serious power increase! of course, he added a turbo the same time...."

yep.
::sigh:: whatever! i gotta bring my post count back up somehow... i was at exactly 2500
 

lagged

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#10
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

hah this time around im gonna have an NA cam in my motor, but at the same time its a fresh rebuild with oversized pistons so id suppose i couldnt give an accurate opinion either way.
 

Idealsupra

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#11
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

ok let me help:

the NA cams are a decent mod for low power 7ms... basically they give the turbo engine a NA powerband but keep a decent amount up top... so you gain about 5-10hp but the real "feeling" is more because it switches your powerband down low...

the bottom line is..this mod is good up to about 300-350hp 7m engines...after that you will be SEVERELY hindering your turbos potential and performance...
 

Squid699

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#12
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

that's about the threshold for this engine anyway....anything beyond that and I'm gonna build a stonger engine...
 

Idealsupra

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#13
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

Squid699 said:
that's about the threshold for this engine anyway....anything beyond that and I'm gonna build a stonger engine...

well yeah obviously in your case thats all fine and good lol MR NA-T lol :D

but a lot of STOCK turbo guys are putting NA cams in...so i figured i would clarify for them ;)
 

jester1341

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#14
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

Idealsupra said:
ok let me help:

the NA cams are a decent mod for low power 7ms... basically they give the turbo engine a NA powerband but keep a decent amount up top... so you gain about 5-10hp but the real "feeling" is more because it switches your powerband down low...
did you read the thread about the Y pipe on the NA engine and how it achieves two peaks across it's powerband???

how does this apply with the cams. i thought the cams where the same and this was the differance in low and high end for the cars.

just asking, since i really don't know very much about this

also if i just pull the cams from my spare NA engine can i slap them right into the turbo head i have without any extra parts required??

john
 

Squid699

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#15
Re: N/a cams in a turbo(Timing)

Idealsupra said:
well yeah obviously in your case thats all fine and good lol MR NA-T lol :D

but a lot of STOCK turbo guys are putting NA cams in...so i figured i would clarify for them ;)

NA-T is a bit of a misnomer......it's a *slightly* modded 7mgte out of a 91
 

bkubisht

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#16
I'm new here, and new to supras. I'm researching puting a 7mge into my toy truck. Since there's no archives, I get to ask a possibly dumb question...

I see it's desirable to swap the 7MGE camshafts into the 7MGTE. Is this because there's more duration on the 7MGE's, and you guys are looking for a setup that revs sky high?

If so, has anyone heard of making a low-rpm torque truck motor using 7MGE with turbo cams?

EDIT: Oh, and it's a 4x4 mountain climber, not a 2wd drag truck.
 

DEFIANT 7M

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#18
Can anyone shed some light on this?

Aust delivered supra (MA70)
intake open 6deg BTDC close 54deg ABDC
ex open 54deg BBDC close 6deg ATDC

Aust delivered Cressida (MX83)
intake open 6deg BTDC close 40deg ABDC
ex open 53deg BBDC close 3deg ATDC
 

Idealsupra

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#19
DEFIANT 7M said:
Can anyone shed some light on this?

Aust delivered supra (MA70)
intake open 6deg BTDC close 54deg ABDC
ex open 54deg BBDC close 6deg ATDC

Aust delivered Cressida (MX83)
intake open 6deg BTDC close 40deg ABDC
ex open 53deg BBDC close 3deg ATDC

is that a turbo supra or NA supra? the cressida i would assume is using the NA cams while the turbo supra is obviously using turbo cams....

otherwise...i dont know and would like info as well ;)
 

shaeff

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#20
bkubisht said:
I see it's desirable to swap the 7MGE camshafts into the 7MGTE. Is this because there's more duration on the 7MGE's, and you guys are looking for a setup that revs sky high?
i havent seen this mentioned in here, it's not BOTH N/A cams that are supposed to be put in the Turbo head, its just the intake cam. really, from everything i've read, it just moves the powerband a bit.

the cams really dont have a whole lot to do with our redline, thats more the crank. i'm sure the cams could take a crapload of revs, but the crank is our worry, if any. i'd say a 7m could rev to about 7k -7500k rpm safely, with stock internals. that is, of course, my opinion. (and we're limited to 6500 for pre 89 and 6250 for 89 + if i remember correctly)

-shaeff
 

IJ.

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#21
Shaeff: If you look at the graphs in the "Cams make a difference on the dyno" thread the stock cams seem to level off at around 5000 rpm while the aftermarket ones continue to make power!

I'm assuming he didn't change anything else related to the upper rpm limit other than the springs required for the new cams!

I always thought the crank was out limiting factor until I read the other thread!
 
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Idealsupra

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#22
IJ. said:
Shaeff: If you look at the graphs in the "Cams make a difference on the dyno" thread the stock cams seem to level off at around 5000 rpm while the aftermarket ones continue to make power!

I'm assuming he didn't change anything else related to the upper rpm limit other than the springs required for the new cams!

I always thought the crank was out limiting factor until I read the other thread!
im pretty sure you arent referring the cams manny used to the NA cams? BIG difference ;)
 

IJ.

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#23
I believe one pull was with stock cams and the next with the aftermarket cams with both curves on the same sheet?


pic pinched from Manny's post (if this is a problem let me know)
 
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bkubisht

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#24
DEFIANT 7M said:
Can anyone shed some light on this?

Aust delivered supra (MA70)
intake open 6deg BTDC close 54deg ABDC
ex open 54deg BBDC close 6deg ATDC

Aust delivered Cressida (MX83)
intake open 6deg BTDC close 40deg ABDC
ex open 53deg BBDC close 3deg ATDC
DEFIANT: OK, so there's quite a difference between the supra and cressida intake cams, and I think it tends to be the valve timing on the intake side that has greatest affect on power curve location. (quoting my old engine rebuilding professor) Closing 14 degrees early should be very significant. Are the cam specs you gave a comparison of turbo vs NA, or supra vs cressida?

SHAEFF: I didn't mean the NA cam would enable you to rev sky high. Just that it would extend the power curve when you're up beyond redline.
 

Idealsupra

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#25
IJ. said:
I believe one pull was with stock cams and the next with the aftermarket cams with both curves on the same sheet?


pic pinched from Manny's post (if this is a problem let me know)
ok yeah...so he got great returns from the aftermarket cams.... but you wont see ANYTHING like that by simply putting in an intake cam from a NA... no way no how ;)
 

IJ.

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#26
Ideal: You've lost me here!

I was pointing out to Shaeff that the stock cams level off at 5000 ish as he'd posted that he thought the limiting factor was the crank and stock cams would go higher....

I used Manny's results to illustrate this showing that stock stops making power at 5000 and aftermarket cams keep climbing.
 
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Idealsupra

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#27
IJ. said:
Ideal: You've lost me here!

I was pointing out to Shaeff that the stock cams level off at 5000 ish as he'd posted that he thought the limiting factor was the crank and stock cams would go higher....

I used Manny's results to illustrate this showing that stock stops making power at 5000 and after market keeps climbing.

i know..i was just pointing out to anyone reading the thread that what you posted was not a dyno from stock turbo cams to stock NA cams.... it was simply to keep people from, gettnig confused ;)
 

shaeff

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#29
IJ. said:
Ideal: You've lost me here!

I was pointing out to Shaeff that the stock cams level off at 5000 ish as he'd posted that he thought the limiting factor was the crank and stock cams would go higher....

I used Manny's results to illustrate this showing that stock stops making power at 5000 and aftermarket cams keep climbing.
woah, i was on a completely different base than you... i was saying that the cams arent what limit the redline, im sure they could be spun higher, though i know the power levels off at about 5k. the crank is.

all i was saying was that if anything was a limiting factor in how high one could redline, it would be the crank, not the cams.

i see what you're sayin though. there's no reason to redline higher if you're leveled off in your power band/curve.

-shaeff
 

DEFIANT 7M

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#30
bkubisht said:
DEFIANT: OK, so there's quite a difference between the supra and cressida intake cams, and I think it tends to be the valve timing on the intake side that has greatest affect on power curve location. (quoting my old engine rebuilding professor) Closing 14 degrees early should be very significant. Are the cam specs you gave a comparison of turbo vs NA, or supra vs cressida?

SHAEFF: I didn't mean the NA cam would enable you to rev sky high. Just that it would extend the power curve when you're up beyond redline.
Not much info, as far as I know supra vs cressida.