My Take on the 2020 Supra

GC89

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I originally told myself that I wouldn't post anything about the new Supra but being someone who has owned, worked on and driven every generation couldn't help it. There is so much distension about this car and my take is a bit different on how things will play out. I wish it wasn't because a part of me would like it to be a flop so that Toyota feels the disheartening disappointment than many enthusiast feel and might actually come to understand what is important to Supra owners and enthusiasts in a car. Or they could have just produced something that we loved.......that would have been great too.

In any case I thing they read things better than most people believe.

 

plaaya69

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Good pros and cons you have mentioned. I do think that this new Supra will bring in a new crowd of car buyers who don't even know any history of the previous generations so the Supra will be a brand new experience for them plus there is just people who want to buy new cars even if the some of the older ones were built better.

The middle of the front end looks like it has some inspiration from the 89-92 style front bumper. After seeing it at the Chicago auto show it does look a bit better in person:





But the 2020 Lexus RC F should have shared more parts with the new Supra instead:


 

GC89

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I am really hoping it looks better in person and also the hope driving experience wins me over. Part of me wants the car to fail and send a message to Toyota but I don't think that will happen and doubt they would listen anyway and would likely abandon the platform again so hoping for the best.

I have to say I am much more excited to get behind of the RC-F than the Supra though.
 

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I feel similarly that it will be a fine car, but not what I wanted it to be. I wanted something overly reliable that's tunable OR something along the lines of an LFA successor at a high price point, but offering cutting edge performance.

I will say, though, I'm still very anxious to learn more about exactly what Toyota altered with the chassis compared to how BMW handed it over. So far, we haven't seen details and we know many parts are still obviously BMW. For an engineering study alone, I'd love to see that detail.
 

GC89

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I feel similarly that it will be a fine car, but not what I wanted it to be. I wanted something overly reliable that's tunable OR something along the lines of an LFA successor at a high price point, but offering cutting edge performance.

I will say, though, I'm still very anxious to learn more about exactly what Toyota altered with the chassis compared to how BMW handed it over. So far, we haven't seen details and we know many parts are still obviously BMW. For an engineering study alone, I'd love to see that detail.
I am interested to see what they altered as well, best case scenario would be they engineered/tweaked enough steering and suspension components to make the car feel like a Toyota sports car and the only downside will be how the drivetrain holds up...........and that slushbox part....
 

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My take on this car is I just don't under stand it beside them trying to make money on the name or when they went with bmw and they just really could not get along they all most parted ways wish they did. second I wish they just called it a 2000gt or more clever name 2020gt since it shares so much with that car than a supra that all ways been a 4 seater gt car.
The part I found funny the closer the car came to be out Tetsuya Tada stepped back and the head ceo took control tada was not even at the grand opening... makes you think.

as for the motor it's number one draw back that limts it to being push to bigger level is the cylinder head it has an coolant cooled internal exhuast manifold major down fall for upgrading turbos and adding rpm, second the motor has a very large stroke and will not take rpm all to well. as for the timing chain components being is dumb spot I just really hope it easy to get at all the timing sensors.

lastly bmw just showed off the b58s which is far more like a 2jz then this run of the mill paper weight. reasons why real exhaust manifold, twin turbo, destroked and still remains a 3 liter, far better oil pan for windage and block strength and a far better head with room for bigger valves so they claim. and boast 400 to 500 something horsepower what the supra should have had.

last but not least on the down low is nissan new z car and infiniti g series since they share the same plate forums is coming out very soon. So far its going to be verant of the gtr motor with less power most likly and fully made in japan. if this happens the supra will be dropped and be a dud.

this car just leaves alot of questions as to why this all happend and i know for damn well bmw ruin what could have been a really neat car.

reason being why on earth would any car company have 2 roadster type cars in there line up with the same engine lay out. the frs is a 2 seater and the new supra is a 2 seater frs is a manual and the supra is an auto only and the new 4 cylinder supra weighs more then the frs 28xx vs 33xx i6 so lets nock off 300 pounds for 2 less cylinders it's still heavyer.

so now you are thinking well they will just make the car better and improve it put a better engine in mabye bring out a manual.... nope will never happen because it joint advencher car so if one get one so does the other this has never happend with any joint advencher made cars ever because of rules of the contracts such as the z4 never getting a m package sinch the supra is the one that supposed to handle better and be more sporty . i can see the manual option possibly happen to improve sales if they are low.

as for toyota bragging about 50/50 weight lower sens of gravity and it's stiffer it's all crap marketing

the frs was 50/50 weight
frs thing about lower sens of gravity i call bs i bet they are the same or the boxer motor that sits side ways is better vs a i6 that has slight slant.
as for stiff ness duuuud it made to be convertible and being super stiff can be a draw back pending on how the suspension is built look at how the older nsx was built by honda was not made to be stiff so it would turn far better.


all in all the new supra is pile of rebadge crap trying to make money off a name
 
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I was in a local Toyota dealership the other day for some parts pickup.
They happened to have a new Supra in the showroom.

So I asked to sit in it and check it out, I figured why not.

1st observation, Toyota staff/employees know absolutely nothing about this car.
I had to show them the double pull hood release feature that BMW uses to open the hood. ( They were searching for a front hood latch that does not exist)
They were also unable to locate the rear trunk button inside. They said it must be only on they key fob. ( I showed them the button for the trunk is on the lower part of the driver's door)

2nd observation, the interior is cramped.
I am by no means a big person and my head felt very very close to the ceiling even after adjusting the seat.
It also feels like you are sitting down in a hole, tough to see anything out the windows.
Probably good seating arrangement for track usage, but I can't imaging driving comfortably on the road in this.

3rd observation, they aren't allowing test drives. Maybe other dealerships are? This one is not. I asked them how are you supposed to know if you like this vehicle or not. They had no answer.

The vehicle also was not marked up, just listed for MSRP sticker price. 57k I think it was.

They said they only sold 3 so far.

Overall so far what I saw, not impressed.
Maybe driving would change my mind? Not sure.
The lack of manual would sap out most of the fun I drive a sports car for.

Has anyone here managed to drive one of these?
 
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plaaya69

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The more I see how the engine is broken down the more I appreciate my 7mGTE, even the 2jz is a fairly simple motor to rebuild with fairly simple tools needed. With this BMW motor think of all the special tools you will need, no oil dipstick, exhaust manifold built into the cylinder head, one time use head bolts and other little things that you need to do like with that timing chain/valvetrain just looks like a pain to work on for a weekend project.

Curious how this motor is going to perform once it is all done:

 

Piratetip

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Yep.
Pretty typical engine assembly for a beemer straight 6.
Basic on the bottom end, nothing unusual there.
The valvetrain is very complex, yes lots of special tools needed.

The funny part was when they discovered no timing marks present on the crank during reassembly.

Amateur aftermarket customers screwing up their modded engines should be entertaining at least.

I would expect the engine to handle big power, they already do.
Like you said, how long?
The complex valvetrain, vanos, valvetronic and the electronic control behind that will probably be it's weakpoint.
 
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There was a white one parked near my office recently, so I looked it over. I decided I didn't like either the nose or tail bumps. Also, it was smaller than I expected. I didn't look too hard at the interior, but I'm sure it's somewhat cramped, as Piratetip just experienced. It's really a small car.

I will never buy one, given the lack of manual transmission and mediocre front suspension. A BRZ/FRS is a much better value with a similar chassis, though it's not as powerful.

VW loves to use torque-to-yield (one use) bolts, so I'm not at all surprised BMW does it too. Yes, it makes repair rather more expensive.
 

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I love that they had to build a custom mount to hold the engine on the engine stand.

I'm not a fan of the car. It is not beautiful, which is baffling given how nice some of the Lexus cars are.

For almost the same amount of money, why wouldn't you get a Corvette? 100+ more horsepower, proper mid engine supercar layout, better transmission, and a true targa top.

It'll be interesting to see how the Supra sells over the next few years. Toyota is also reportedly working on a 3rd car, maybe a new MR2? That would fit nicely between the Supra and the BRZ/FRS.
 

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Agreed.

The exterior design work on this car is hideous IMO.

Agreed Lexus has some beautiful 2 door coupes. (minus the predator face front grille)
I have no idea what they were thinking for the design work on the Supra.
 

Enraged

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Because old men in Corvettes are just pathetic.
I think that's what GM is trying to change with this new design. It seems like a lot of people that were going to get a new Supra are now cross shopping the Corvette, and even the Mustang GT350. At the price point of the new Supra, there are quite a few good cars.
 
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debrucer

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I think that's what GM is trying to change with this new design. It seems like a lot of people that were going to get a new Supra are now cross shopping the Corvette, and even the Mustang GT350. At the price point of the new Supra, there are quite a few good cars.
These were the days!

We live in a great time.
 

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I wonder if you can actually get the new Corvette for MSRP though...

Seems like these type vehicles end up with huge dealer markups.

Won't really know until GM starts building vehicles again though...lol.
 

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The Corvette isn't a limited run car, there is no justification for markups other than greed. Of course, the same could be said for the Supra. Locally, you can order a Corvette for MSRP. The local Toyota dealership sold their first Supra for CDN$120k to a guy in Oregon....
 

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The Corvette isn't a limited run car, there is no justification for markups other than greed business strategy. Of course, the same could be said for the Supra. Locally, you can order a Corvette for MSRP. The local Toyota dealership sold their first Supra for CDN$120k to a guy in Oregon....
FTFW.

I don't get the hate on dealer markups. If they mark it up and sell it then the car was worth the markup. If they mark it up and don't sell it, then it wasn't and they lose sale potential. It's a perfectly self-regulating system that rewards the right decision and punishes the wrong one.

Everything in this world that's bought and sold is marked up somewhere by someone. Everything that's sold is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay.
 

Piratetip

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Yep.
It's supply and demand.
Like the Ford Fosus RS markups that sat around forever.
Then forced them to sell under MSRP.
 

NashMan

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still hate the car and everything it stand for should have stayed dead


but lots of you tuber's are buying them...... rolls eye's
 
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SupraMario

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still hate the car and everything it stand for should have stayed dead


but lots of you tuber's are buying them...... rolls eye's
The buzz that came from reddit is what got me banned from the toyota subreddit, because they didn't like that I said it wasn't a supra and was basically just a BMW with a body kit.

Toyota disappoints me, and from everything here, all the true owners, disappointed as well, just like I stated, but all the fanbois have said this is going to be a legend...lol
 

debrucer

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The buzz that came from reddit is what got me banned from the toyota subreddit, because they didn't like that I said it wasn't a supra and was basically just a BMW with a body kit.

Toyota disappoints me, and from everything here, all the true owners, disappointed as well, just like I stated, but all the fanbois have said this is going to be a legend...lol
All this negative talk makes me reflect on my reasons for having a mk3 Supra. It was the mk4 that made the reputation, not the 3, won't be the 5.

With that said, I drive a BMW, not because I love them so much, but because it cost $200 and is 19 years old with 190,000 miles. It's still a pretty fine example of something. I wouldn't own a new one, well, not and pay for it, and I have some history with BMW. I built and managed the first BMW parts department in the Washington DC metropolitan area in 1972. I drove a new demo car every six months, my favorite was not a BMW. And parts? priced out of sight. Part of it was stupidity... the GM oil filter and smog pumps they used on the car were exported to Germany, and then exported back to the United States for distributor/dealer inventory. The designs were so intentionally made to cause damage when the letter of the law was involved. Bumpers in 1972, and the new safety standards were such that just a few degrees over the standard angle of collision, and you would damage the newly bubble-shaped turn signal lenses... which weren't available as a lens, but rather, an assembly. Over $80 in 1972. Other things that just broke. Hell, the BMW I drive now has the PCV valve built into the valve cover, and it looks like it can be serviced, but, try it, and you'll break the little plastic clips that cannot be replaced (as well as the diaphragm which also cannot be replaced), and the new valve cover cost $517 on Amazon today. German's brag about German engineering, I shouldn't get started, had a 2001 C240 that literally fell apart in four years. There's nothing about German engineering that I admire. I'd rather have an Alfa. You know it's going to break, but, you treat it right and take care of it.

Okay, I'll step down off my soap box. I'll probably never own a mk4. I definitely will not own a mk5. I had hoped that I would, but, now that I've seen what it is, I don't want one. I love my mk3. I bought it at a Kars4Kids auction. Now, get that jingle in your head, and think of me when you can't get it out:) Seriously, purchased in 2006 with a BHG, literally fell in love with it here, on Supramania.

You know what was going on here in 2006.
 

Piratetip

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You should try working with BMW electronics and their communication protocol. Makes me want to pull my hair out. Typical German overcomplicated engineering.
 

SupraMario

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All this negative talk makes me reflect on my reasons for having a mk3 Supra. It was the mk4 that made the reputation, not the 3, won't be the 5.

With that said, I drive a BMW, not because I love them so much, but because it cost $200 and is 19 years old with 190,000 miles. It's still a pretty fine example of something. I wouldn't own a new one, well, not and pay for it, and I have some history with BMW. I built and managed the first BMW parts department in the Washington DC metropolitan area in 1972. I drove a new demo car every six months, my favorite was not a BMW. And parts? priced out of sight. Part of it was stupidity... the GM oil filter and smog pumps they used on the car were exported to Germany, and then exported back to the United States for distributor/dealer inventory. The designs were so intentionally made to cause damage when the letter of the law was involved. Bumpers in 1972, and the new safety standards were such that just a few degrees over the standard angle of collision, and you would damage the newly bubble-shaped turn signal lenses... which weren't available as a lens, but rather, an assembly. Over $80 in 1972. Other things that just broke. Hell, the BMW I drive now has the PCV valve built into the valve cover, and it looks like it can be serviced, but, try it, and you'll break the little plastic clips that cannot be replaced (as well as the diaphragm which also cannot be replaced), and the new valve cover cost $517 on Amazon today. German's brag about German engineering, I shouldn't get started, had a 2001 C240 that literally fell apart in four years. There's nothing about German engineering that I admire. I'd rather have an Alfa. You know it's going to break, but, you treat it right and take care of it.

Okay, I'll step down off my soap box. I'll probably never own a mk4. I definitely will not own a mk5. I had hoped that I would, but, now that I've seen what it is, I don't want one. I love my mk3. I bought it at a Kars4Kids auction. Now, get that jingle in your head, and think of me when you can't get it out:) Seriously, purchased in 2006 with a BHG, literally fell in love with it here, on Supramania.

You know what was going on here in 2006.
Yeah I remember you, and I %100 know what you mean with the BMWs I owned a 1996 325i, really fun to drive and I love the look of the cars, but damn did it need work a lot, I had to maintain it like mad, but it hit 240k miles. Thing is, I'm pretty sure that was the last of the semi-reliable BMWs, cause everything I'm seeing today has a lot of reliability issues.
 
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debrucer

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You should try working with BMW electronics and their communication protocol. Makes me want to pull my hair out. Typical German overcomplicated engineering.
My $200 car came with one key, and in the process of getting three new ones, I bought an AK90+ key programmer, and learned to program the inhibitor/key system. I also obtained and installed a working copy of their "BMW Tools", their coding tool. Mastered that, but it's only good for very few years, nothing current. There are something like eleven what they call "ECUs" on this car, and they all have to communicate. I only messed with the keys, and hoped the tools, with German text, would prove helpful somewhere down the road. In reality, I probably should have run :)

It was an exercise, because the Speeduino that I'm building, and the planned electronic dash, are both pretty far reaches.

Priority today, get the car together and running normally, more or less.
 

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Saw one of these for the first time today. Looked damn good, I must say. Much more presence than your average new non-super car.

If they offered a real manual or a dual clutch transmission I might be stepping into a dealer to explore options. Since it's auto only though, Not even worth a quick glance in the showroom. Take note, Toyota...
 

SupraMario

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Saw one of these for the first time today. Looked damn good, I must say. Much more presence than your average new non-super car.

If they offered a real manual or a dual clutch transmission I might be stepping into a dealer to explore options. Since it's auto only though, Not even worth a quick glance in the showroom. Take note, Toyota...
You mean BMW, Toyota can't call the shots for the drivetrain. So they are basically at the mercy of BMW to offer a manual if Toyota asks kindly.
 

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You mean BMW, Toyota can't call the shots for the drivetrain. So they are basically at the mercy of BMW to offer a manual if Toyota asks kindly.
True, but I think Toyota could push for it and make it happen pretty easily. BMW already makes a manual Z4. And I'm pretty sure there's a B58 variant or cousin within the BMW family that uses a manual. All the pieces are there, they just need some drive and motivation to do it.
 

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True, but I think Toyota could push for it and make it happen pretty easily. BMW already makes a manual Z4. And I'm pretty sure there's a B58 variant or cousin within the BMW family that uses a manual. All the pieces are there, they just need some drive and motivation to do it.
They slapped a body kit on a Z4 and badged it as a supra...dunno how much drive or motivation other than cashing in on the name there is.
 

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I heard there was also going to be a four cylinder and the thought was that once this model comes out that people will 2JZ them :)

But, I also heard that the 6s are also making 1000 HP, maybe no need for the conversion?
 

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They slapped a body kit on a Z4 and badged it as a supra...dunno how much drive or motivation other than cashing in on the name there is.
Well I can't argue with you there. I'm very disappointed with the lack of Toyota engineering in the project. I guess my point is that the parts to do this exist within the BMW catalog and other enthusiast cars in similar or lower end segments have sold well with manuals.

I heard there was also going to be a four cylinder and the thought was that once this model comes out that people will 2JZ them :)

But, I also heard that the 6s are also making 1000 HP, maybe no need for the conversion?
I think the B58 will get all the aftermarket goodies needed to support reliable big power. I wonder about the rest though. Can axles take it? driveshaft, diff, trans, subframes, etc...
 

SupraMario

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Well I can't argue with you there. I'm very disappointed with the lack of Toyota engineering in the project. I guess my point is that the parts to do this exist within the BMW catalog and other enthusiast cars in similar or lower end segments have sold well with manuals.



I think the B58 will get all the aftermarket goodies needed to support reliable big power. I wonder about the rest though. Can axles take it? driveshaft, diff, trans, subframes, etc...
True, BMW thankfully does do manual cars still, unlike a lot of makers who have just jumped straight to automatics and dont care for manuals anymore.

That's my big thing as well, sure you can slap anything together make decent power, but is it going to be reliable? Or in the end will you just have a shell of the car with a ton of aftermarket stuff that does the trick.
 

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wow, glad to see this thread is still going.......

After seeing and driving one all my thoughts have been confirmed....... it feels like a bmw. The steering is a bit different, but overall it sounds, shifts and just feels like a bmw. It's a nice car if you can get over the paddles only and fart noises. Very torque forward, precise and fun but it does not feel like a Toyota or Supra.

Looks wise it is better in person than my initial impressions from photos, still don't car for the nose but the overall profile and rear is pretty aggressive.

Would put my money into a C8 hands down over this...... and I'm a Toyota guy first, Ford guy second so that says a lot
 
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What did you think of the seating position and visibility?
Also what is your height?
 

GC89

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What did you think of the seating position and visibility?
Also what is your height?
I'm only 5'11 so it was fine for me. Visibility isn't great, I feel like this is a trend in recent sportscars. I think it might have more headroom than my MKIII stock seat due to the roof 'humps'? but overall its fairly small
 

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I saw another today. Red this time (first was black "Launch Edition"). Not as striking as the Launch Edition.

When I saw this one I thought it needed a lowering. Stock ride height and wheel/tire fitment looked a little bleh.

I agree they have better presence in person.
 

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Haha.
The nearby dealer is now pricing them below MSRP.

They have the exact same ones in the showroom as the last time I was there. Last October....

This one of 2 dealers I went to that would not even allow a test drive.
Too funny.

https://www.andrewtoyota.com/new-vehicles/?#action=im_ajax_call&perform=get_results&model%5B%5D=Supra&page=1
The dealer here had one on the showroom floor and three outside the front door. I didn't bother asking for a test drive. I have no interest. I have a BMW and I know how hard it has been to work on. Nothing is simple or intuitive. An example, you have to take the console out to remove the gas tank because the emergency brake can't be disconnected from the rear. I often take things too far apart... my BMW just encourages me to do so, hopefully my old Supra will go back together soon :)
 

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Oh I know what they are. :)
I've worked on quite a few BMW's, they are... Not fun...

I just thought I would try one out at the dealership while I was already there for parts.
They said you have to put 2k down just to get a test drive.
They had one behind ropes, hah, yeah that was funny.
Dealer is treating these cars like some sort of exclusive thing.
Which might be true...seeing as how few they are selling.
Expensive supercar rare is not the same as nobody is buying them rare.

Ah well, all for a good laugh I guess.
 
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