My Take on the 2020 Supra

GC89

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I originally told myself that I wouldn't post anything about the new Supra but being someone who has owned, worked on and driven every generation couldn't help it. There is so much distension about this car and my take is a bit different on how things will play out. I wish it wasn't because a part of me would like it to be a flop so that Toyota feels the disheartening disappointment than many enthusiast feel and might actually come to understand what is important to Supra owners and enthusiasts in a car. Or they could have just produced something that we loved.......that would have been great too.

In any case I thing they read things better than most people believe.

 

plaaya69

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Good pros and cons you have mentioned. I do think that this new Supra will bring in a new crowd of car buyers who don't even know any history of the previous generations so the Supra will be a brand new experience for them plus there is just people who want to buy new cars even if the some of the older ones were built better.

The middle of the front end looks like it has some inspiration from the 89-92 style front bumper. After seeing it at the Chicago auto show it does look a bit better in person:





But the 2020 Lexus RC F should have shared more parts with the new Supra instead:


 

GC89

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I am really hoping it looks better in person and also the hope driving experience wins me over. Part of me wants the car to fail and send a message to Toyota but I don't think that will happen and doubt they would listen anyway and would likely abandon the platform again so hoping for the best.

I have to say I am much more excited to get behind of the RC-F than the Supra though.
 

suprarx7nut

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I feel similarly that it will be a fine car, but not what I wanted it to be. I wanted something overly reliable that's tunable OR something along the lines of an LFA successor at a high price point, but offering cutting edge performance.

I will say, though, I'm still very anxious to learn more about exactly what Toyota altered with the chassis compared to how BMW handed it over. So far, we haven't seen details and we know many parts are still obviously BMW. For an engineering study alone, I'd love to see that detail.
 

GC89

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I feel similarly that it will be a fine car, but not what I wanted it to be. I wanted something overly reliable that's tunable OR something along the lines of an LFA successor at a high price point, but offering cutting edge performance.

I will say, though, I'm still very anxious to learn more about exactly what Toyota altered with the chassis compared to how BMW handed it over. So far, we haven't seen details and we know many parts are still obviously BMW. For an engineering study alone, I'd love to see that detail.
I am interested to see what they altered as well, best case scenario would be they engineered/tweaked enough steering and suspension components to make the car feel like a Toyota sports car and the only downside will be how the drivetrain holds up...........and that slushbox part....
 

NashMan

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My take on this car is I just don't under stand it beside them trying to make money on the name or when they went with bmw and they just really could not get along they all most parted ways wish they did. second I wish they just called it a 2000gt or more clever name 2020gt since it shares so much with that car than a supra that all ways been a 4 seater gt car.
The part I found funny the closer the car came to be out Tetsuya Tada stepped back and the head ceo took control tada was not even at the grand opening... makes you think.

as for the motor it's number one draw back that limts it to being push to bigger level is the cylinder head it has an coolant cooled internal exhuast manifold major down fall for upgrading turbos and adding rpm, second the motor has a very large stroke and will not take rpm all to well. as for the timing chain components being is dumb spot I just really hope it easy to get at all the timing sensors.

lastly bmw just showed off the b58s which is far more like a 2jz then this run of the mill paper weight. reasons why real exhaust manifold, twin turbo, destroked and still remains a 3 liter, far better oil pan for windage and block strength and a far better head with room for bigger valves so they claim. and boast 400 to 500 something horsepower what the supra should have had.

last but not least on the down low is nissan new z car and infiniti g series since they share the same plate forums is coming out very soon. So far its going to be verant of the gtr motor with less power most likly and fully made in japan. if this happens the supra will be dropped and be a dud.

this car just leaves alot of questions as to why this all happend and i know for damn well bmw ruin what could have been a really neat car.

reason being why on earth would any car company have 2 roadster type cars in there line up with the same engine lay out. the frs is a 2 seater and the new supra is a 2 seater frs is a manual and the supra is an auto only and the new 4 cylinder supra weighs more then the frs 28xx vs 33xx i6 so lets nock off 300 pounds for 2 less cylinders it's still heavyer.

so now you are thinking well they will just make the car better and improve it put a better engine in mabye bring out a manual.... nope will never happen because it joint advencher car so if one get one so does the other this has never happend with any joint advencher made cars ever because of rules of the contracts such as the z4 never getting a m package sinch the supra is the one that supposed to handle better and be more sporty . i can see the manual option possibly happen to improve sales if they are low.

as for toyota bragging about 50/50 weight lower sens of gravity and it's stiffer it's all crap marketing

the frs was 50/50 weight
frs thing about lower sens of gravity i call bs i bet they are the same or the boxer motor that sits side ways is better vs a i6 that has slight slant.
as for stiff ness duuuud it made to be convertible and being super stiff can be a draw back pending on how the suspension is built look at how the older nsx was built by honda was not made to be stiff so it would turn far better.


all in all the new supra is pile of rebadge crap trying to make money off a name
 

Piratetip

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I was in a local Toyota dealership the other day for some parts pickup.
They happened to have a new Supra in the showroom.

So I asked to sit in it and check it out, I figured why not.

1st observation, Toyota staff/employees know absolutely nothing about this car.
I had to show them the double pull hood release feature that BMW uses to open the hood. ( They were searching for a front hood latch that does not exist)
They were also unable to locate the rear trunk button inside. They said it must be only on they key fob. ( I showed them the button for the trunk is on the lower part of the driver's door)

2nd observation, the interior is cramped.
I am by no means a big person and my head felt very very close to the ceiling even after adjusting the seat.
It also feels like you are sitting down in a hole, tough to see anything out the windows.
Probably good seating arrangement for track usage, but I can't imaging driving comfortably on the road in this.

3rd observation, they aren't allowing test drives. Maybe other dealerships are? This one is not. I asked them how are you supposed to know if you like this vehicle or not. They had no answer.

The vehicle also was not marked up, just listed for MSRP sticker price. 57k I think it was.

They said they only sold 3 so far.

Overall so far what I saw, not impressed.
Maybe driving would change my mind? Not sure.
The lack of manual would sap out most of the fun I drive a sports car for.

Has anyone here managed to drive one of these?
 

plaaya69

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The more I see how the engine is broken down the more I appreciate my 7mGTE, even the 2jz is a fairly simple motor to rebuild with fairly simple tools needed. With this BMW motor think of all the special tools you will need, no oil dipstick, exhaust manifold built into the cylinder head, one time use head bolts and other little things that you need to do like with that timing chain/valvetrain just looks like a pain to work on for a weekend project.

Curious how this motor is going to perform once it is all done:

 

Piratetip

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Yep.
Pretty typical engine assembly for a beemer straight 6.
Basic on the bottom end, nothing unusual there.
The valvetrain is very complex, yes lots of special tools needed.

The funny part was when they discovered no timing marks present on the crank during reassembly.

Amateur aftermarket customers screwing up their modded engines should be entertaining at least.

I would expect the engine to handle big power, they already do.
Like you said, how long?
The complex valvetrain, vanos, valvetronic and the electronic control behind that will probably be it's weakpoint.
 
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Asterix

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There was a white one parked near my office recently, so I looked it over. I decided I didn't like either the nose or tail bumps. Also, it was smaller than I expected. I didn't look too hard at the interior, but I'm sure it's somewhat cramped, as Piratetip just experienced. It's really a small car.

I will never buy one, given the lack of manual transmission and mediocre front suspension. A BRZ/FRS is a much better value with a similar chassis, though it's not as powerful.

VW loves to use torque-to-yield (one use) bolts, so I'm not at all surprised BMW does it too. Yes, it makes repair rather more expensive.
 

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I love that they had to build a custom mount to hold the engine on the engine stand.

I'm not a fan of the car. It is not beautiful, which is baffling given how nice some of the Lexus cars are.

For almost the same amount of money, why wouldn't you get a Corvette? 100+ more horsepower, proper mid engine supercar layout, better transmission, and a true targa top.

It'll be interesting to see how the Supra sells over the next few years. Toyota is also reportedly working on a 3rd car, maybe a new MR2? That would fit nicely between the Supra and the BRZ/FRS.
 

Piratetip

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Agreed.

The exterior design work on this car is hideous IMO.

Agreed Lexus has some beautiful 2 door coupes. (minus the predator face front grille)
I have no idea what they were thinking for the design work on the Supra.
 

Enraged

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Because old men in Corvettes are just pathetic.
I think that's what GM is trying to change with this new design. It seems like a lot of people that were going to get a new Supra are now cross shopping the Corvette, and even the Mustang GT350. At the price point of the new Supra, there are quite a few good cars.
 
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debrucer

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I think that's what GM is trying to change with this new design. It seems like a lot of people that were going to get a new Supra are now cross shopping the Corvette, and even the Mustang GT350. At the price point of the new Supra, there are quite a few good cars.
These were the days!

We live in a great time.
 

Piratetip

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I wonder if you can actually get the new Corvette for MSRP though...

Seems like these type vehicles end up with huge dealer markups.

Won't really know until GM starts building vehicles again though...lol.
 

Enraged

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The Corvette isn't a limited run car, there is no justification for markups other than greed. Of course, the same could be said for the Supra. Locally, you can order a Corvette for MSRP. The local Toyota dealership sold their first Supra for CDN$120k to a guy in Oregon....
 

suprarx7nut

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The Corvette isn't a limited run car, there is no justification for markups other than greed business strategy. Of course, the same could be said for the Supra. Locally, you can order a Corvette for MSRP. The local Toyota dealership sold their first Supra for CDN$120k to a guy in Oregon....
FTFW.

I don't get the hate on dealer markups. If they mark it up and sell it then the car was worth the markup. If they mark it up and don't sell it, then it wasn't and they lose sale potential. It's a perfectly self-regulating system that rewards the right decision and punishes the wrong one.

Everything in this world that's bought and sold is marked up somewhere by someone. Everything that's sold is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay.
 

Piratetip

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Yep.
It's supply and demand.
Like the Ford Fosus RS markups that sat around forever.
Then forced them to sell under MSRP.