Illegals

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Supracentral

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lagged said:
open your eyes. its about racism.
Actually if you want to get technical, it's about bigotry not racisim.

They are two very different things in my book, regarldess of what the "common folk" have done to the language in the last 20 years.
 

JustAnotherVictim

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lagged said:
open your eyes. its about racism.
I'm not referring to what was originally posted, but legal immigration is fine with me. People just deciding they want to live here and coming in however they please is not ok. Simple as that no matter what race you are.
 

lagged

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Supracentral said:
Actually if you want to get technical, it's about bigotry not racisim.

They are two very different things in my book, regarldess of what the "common folk" have done to the language in the last 20 years.
id say its about both, but of course thats just my opinion.

and youre right, much bigotry has been demonstrated in this thread. and whats behind the intolerance? a notion that these WETBACKS dont have a right to live in this country. a notion of superiority whether its because they have lived in their trailer home since they were born, or simply because they dont like mexicans or other hispanics.

you guys calling illegals WETBACKS and whatever else were born in this country. you were born into your citizenship.

these people are currently WORKING for it. LITERALLY risking their lives for a chance to live here and be apart of america. they know they can get their residency once they are here, and thats what they are fighting to do.
 
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lagged

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JustAnotherVictim said:
I'm not referring to what was originally posted, but legal immigration is fine with me. People just deciding they want to live here and coming in however they please is not ok. Simple as that no matter what race you are.
whether you see it or not, the manner in which certain peoples opinions have been expressed alludes to racism AND bigotry.
 

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Ok, this will surely bring up some issues with someone but here the current situation in my hometown of Denver, Colorado.

The DPS and APS (Denver and Aurora Public Schools) systems are at an all time low and have fewer and fewer English-speaking students. Kids can't pass basic tests, struggle to read, write and do simple math. This is all due to a dramatic rise in immigration. Legal or not. I'm NOT saying its the kids fault or their parents, but there is most definitely a direct coorilation to the amount of immigrants and the degrading schools. There are plenty of hard working Mexican immigrants and I have a lot of respect for them. But there are plenty that are not helping our education system. I have more to say, but i gotta go.

I'll be back for more
 

lagged

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suprarx7nut said:
Ok, this will surely bring up some issues with someone but here the current situation in my hometown of Denver, Colorado.

The DPS and APS (Denver and Aurora Public Schools) systems are at an all time low and have fewer and fewer English-speaking students. Kids can't pass basic tests, struggle to read, write and do simple math. This is all due to a dramatic rise in immigration. Legal or not. I'm NOT saying its the kids fault or their parents, but there is most definitely a direct coorilation to the amount of immigrants and the degrading schools. There are plenty of hard working Mexican immigrants and I have a lot of respect for them. But there are plenty that are not helping our education system. I have more to say, but i gotta go.

I'll be back for more
well that dosnt make any sense to me. it is the duty of the education system to educate. so how can you blame immigration on the fall of test scores?

people have to STOP blaming things on the WRONG parties!

in my opinion, people are just using immigrants as scapegoats!
 

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I'm not sure how blaming schools is valid either.
The problem I see is, just like people who live here, some people choose not to learn.
 
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lagged said:
TAX FORUMS. SPECIFIALLY FOR NON RESIDENT ALIENS
Just a point of fact here. Any person not a US Citizen (natuarlized(sp?) or natural born) that is in this country is an "Alien".
An illegal alien is one who is here without going through the proper channels, and therefore is a criminal acording to our laws.
A legel alien is one with a visa/passport and other required documents, and therefore not a criminal.

Non resident aliens is like saying a homeless person that doesn't own a house.


Illegal aliens have no respect for our countries legal system, if they did, they wouldn't be illegally here. They would go through the processes that are required. There are other people in America that have no respect for the legal system, they are Circuit Court Judges, Congressmen, Senators, Lobbyists, Rapists, Murderes, Thiefs, and deadbeat parents who refuse to pay child support.

So as you can see we already have enough problems to deal with "in house" we don't need anymore coming in.

as for the racist bigotry deal...
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=425325&postcount=30

My post there deals primarily with Blacks, and the word "nigger" but it applies to all...
before the rep system got removed..i can't tell you how many positive reps I had from that post/thread. I won't name names obviously..but it seems alot of folks here agreed with me on that issue
 

lagged

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well what about someone who pays their speeding ticket? someone who was convicted of a felony and served their time in prison?

under our legal system, they are seen as having served their time, end of story.

the government gives these people their citizenship after they either pay a fine or go back home until they are processed.

all these people think that there are no provisions for what is going on, but the government handles it the way they have for a while now.

in my eyes it stems from racism. there is not one legitimate reason for the hate these people harbor.

ive said my part so im done with this thread.
one last thing to think about. you people here on the internet who throw around words like wetback and beaner better realize that out in the real world you do not know how someone else is going to react to it. not to be an internet tough guy, but rest assured anyone ever to call a friend of mine one of those words in my presence will be swiftly admitted to the emergency room.
 
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lanky189

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lagged said:
well what about someone who pays their speeding ticket? someone who was convicted of a felony and served their time in prison?

under our legal system, they are seen as having served their time, end of story.

the government gives these people their citizenship after they either pay a fine or go back home until they are processed.
To those few, I say bravo..congratulations welcome to the greatest country in the world. However those people are far and few between in contrast to the border jumpers that aren't paying taxes, are mooching off welfare and are a general hazard to society from their lack of English comprehension

ive said my part so im done with this thread.
one last thing to think about. you people here on the internet who throw around words like wetback and beaner better realize that out in the real world you do not know how someone else is going to react to it. not to be an internet tough guy, but rest assured anyone ever to call a friend of mine one of those words in my presence will be swiftly admitted to the emergency room.
I am no keyboard warrior Lagged, I enjoy your presence online, I love your debates and other things...but i read what you said as a threat...I have no qualms about telling a nigger that he/she is one, same as spic/wetback, kike, honky, etc...If the shoe fits...i'll cram it down your face...If you're friends with someone who is such low class smut as to qualify for those titles..I feel for you and I certainly hope you don't think they are worth a fight, for they aren't even willing to fight for themselves.

I'm not sure what your area is like in Rochelle, but I challenge you to live in my area for a year or so...and not see what I mean..
I also balk at the idea that you've never said such words in anger/disgust etc...for in order to preach from your pulpit there must be no stain on your robe.
 

lagged

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on the contrary, i think everyone is entitled to their moments of stupidity and immaturity.

when i was younger i have used racial slurs out of anger. i even could have been considered a bit of a racist.

mind you, this was when i was in my early teens. i am forever learning. everyday i learn more and more. and i do not claim to know everything, and i ENJOY being corrected when i am wrong!

at this point in my life (i was born in 86) i believe that there is no excuse for using a racial slur and that racism as abhorrent.

in regards to friends i would defend, maybe YOU wouldnt call one of them a spic or what have you, because the people i have in mind have been the best friends to me anyone could ask for. they are not scum and are terrific people.

you must understand where i take offense and that is referring to them in a derogatory fashion. like it or not, you can not change the meaning of those words. i can guarantee you that, my ex girlfriend for example WOULD take offense to it, no matter what definition you have attributed to the word.

please also keep in mind that i was speaking in general sense and not lashing out towards you lanky, i was just trying to make the point that people are too free with their speech on the internet. i am sure you would agree with me in that respect.

the feelings of racism and resentment that i get from truckers post, and others is something i cant help but to respond to with anger.

yet another problem with written communication is that its hard to express ones self accurately. it is something that i struggle with because i want whoever is reading my words to get the most accurate portrayal of my emotions as possible.


oh one last thing in regards to our differing locals. it has been my experience that the MAJORITY of illegals are of the variety that i have described. of course, this is due entirely to my own experience with the people in my area.

the problem with racists: they see shitty people from a specific race and take the easy way out and use racial slurs to describe them. simply put, that is one of the lowest forms of stupidity that exists in this world.
yes, trucker and your wife i am calling you stupid.

then again, please keep in mind that it is entirely possible that my reactions to this issue have been out of line due to stressors in my everyday life. maybe i am overly aggressive and maybe i am too confrontational. however at this point in my life it is the way i am, and when i have an opinion on something i will voice it as strongly as possible.
 

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your opinion of myself is of no concern to me in the grand scheme of life.

i think your opinion would be a little different about "immigants" if you werent fucking one.(you started the ugliness by calling someone you have never met stupid)

i'm weak for using this term in your opinion?

what does politically correct america say?

illegal immigrant/undocumented worker/illegal alien...these are the "correct" way to refer to these mexicans. now lets be real honest here, when we use these correct terms we are almost always referring to brown people from south of the rio grande...now i know it is supposed to be all illegals, but lets be real, we all have the same image when we hear these terms.by using these terms, you are in fact, seperating them by race, and by class

you choose to call them by the "correct" terminology. i chose the "vulgar and ugly " term wetback...a term that also describes these people, seperating them by race, and CLASS.

what is the diference? you are right because of the words you chose? you are still seperating by class and color. these terms are designed to make people feel better about themselves, nothing more.you are still doing the same thing i am, wheather you would care to admit to it or not.

a rose, by any other name, would smell as sweet


i feel like i am being more honest than someone who choses to be pc. when i call a wetback a wetback, i am calling to attention to their bad behavior, in an addmitedly shocking manner.

it's amazing that i can be demonized for my choice of words, but the illegal defended for his ACTIONS

i happen to know a couple of imigrants from south africa, one a driver in my company, another keeping bar in the hotel my wife co-managed.

these are white people, and they refused to be called african-americans. why? because while they are much more africans than the black guy sitting on a corner in detroit selling dope, they know that african-american is a term used 99.99% of the time to describe a black person, not an immigrant from africa.

diving people by race goes on now, and it will untill we all manage to blow our asses up, only the terms we use to describe them have changed.

i call a black man black, and (here it comes, wanted to avoid it)so does my black friend, and he uses the term nigger to describe the same people i do, not to greet his buddies

i call a mexican man mexican, and so my mexican friends, and they actually use the term wetback far more than i do, and they do hate these people, while for me it's merely a descriptive term(they resent having earned the right to be here, using the proper legal channels, and watching illegals just waltz over and take what they have earned)


i use no terms over the internet that i don't use in life, to a persons face, if your woman is a wetback, and if for some reason the situation arose, i will ust the term, to her face, wether you are standing there with that baseball bat or not, if i had a nickel for everytime someone has said they were going to do something to me, i wouldn't be driving a truck. it hasn't happened yet
it might someday, but i am man enough to back up anything that comes out of my mouth, and if i get my ass in a fight over my beliefs/words/actions, it wouldn't be the first time, and prolly wouldn't be the last.



and you want to call me stupid? sticks and stones my friend
just remember wether you are using your politically correct terms to describe someone,or i'm using ugly socially "unacceptable" ones, we are doing the exact same thing...wether you care to admit it or not. there is no hate or malice in what i say, read into it what you will, there is only one person i have to answer to in life...and it isn't you
 
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csr ma71

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Saying people need to be able to speak Spanish just to have a job, that's not because of illegals, that's because of Latin people. Saying you have a problem with needing that in your job skills sort of says you're not comfortable with Latin people.

People that are for illegals aren't for illegal immigrants, they just want Latin people to not be disrespected and have it justified due to fear of illegal immigration.
 

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csr ma71 said:
Saying people need to be able to speak Spanish just to have a job, that's not because of illegals, that's because of Latin people. Saying you have a problem with needing that in your job skills sort of says you're not comfortable with Latin people.

People that are for illegals aren't for illegal immigrants, they just want Latin people to not be disrespected and have it justified due to fear of illegal immigration.




wha? don't want latin people to be disrespected?

you have got to be fucking joking....how about latin people respect their new country by learning it's common language?

if i moved to japan, its my responsibility to learn japanese, not their responsibility to learn english...why would i feel disrespected if i'm in someone elses country and they don't want to learn my language?


my wife's statements are her own, and we don't agree on a lot of things like this...but she's right on this...i'm getting tired of people's resentment towards
us non-spanish using people, because they can't comminuicate with us...it's not our problem, you came to my country, not the other way around.


when i was training otr drivers, i was unfortunate enough to have a student who spoke little english...how he bs'ed his way through an interview, i have no idea, but he made it all the way to my truck.now this man came legally, and wanted to better his life, and was tring like hell to learn, and for someone in that situation, i will, and did do all i can to turn him into a
sucessful driver.

the guys driving was top noch, there was nothing i coulld teaching himabout driving the vehicle. unfortunately, there was nothing i could teach him about being a truck driver. how do you explain federally mandated paperwork to someone who gives you a blank stare when you say log book?

he had the balls to tell me i needed to learn spanish so i could teach him these things.....how is this right? and even if i did, how is he going to comminucate with dot at a check station?

shure as shit, he gets pulled over a couple of days later, while i was in sleeper. after a lot of grunting and gesturing i was forced to have to deal with the now very unhappy dot officer.in this case, it's a saftey issue, how is he gonna read that very importaint sign at the top of cabbage pass?(ironicaly, it's offical name is immigrant pass).

now i eventually found him a spanish speaking trainer(btw, one of my mexican friends i was referring to in last post)becaue like i said, i'm not in the least bit racist, and was doing all i could for him, because he wanted to be here, and he did it legally.it was my right to term him for this issue, but i wanted to give a hard-working man a fighting chance.

i'm not shure i did him any favors by doing this. no he is a non-english speaking or reading driver who is at this very moment piloting an 80000lb missle down the road, who knows, he might not catch that one-lane road sign headed towards your wife and children coming the other way.

but hey, perhaps all signs should be in every language...we wouldn't want to disrespect anyone, right?
 

lagged

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EDIT: ill no longer converse with you. youre obviously a biggot and ignorant. thats all.

furthermore, this thread should have been deleted and locked after post #1.
 
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foreverpsycotic

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i have respect for those that come to this country looking for work. my parents have hired illegals for work (gutting a kitchen) and ill tell you what, for 10$ an hour, they work hard as shit, harder than i have ever seen an american work for that pay. they work shit ass jobs and love it, because at the end of the day they have what is dear to them, and neccessary in life; money. i agree that there is a problem with the IDs being taken (as my school had a data leak that contained my ssn). if they work their ass off doing shit that i wounldnt, more power to them. there is more of a problem(around me at least) with overprivelagded children not doing shit with their lives than illegals. dumb ass white kids, coming from wealthy families and wasting their time and money on drugs and alcohol, instead of using it to get somewhere in life.
 

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I'm not tryin to stick up for the immigrants.... quite the contrary actually, but just so long as everyone knows.... Any white person is an immigrant. period. Unless you are 100% native american, in which case you probably live on a reservation...... guess what? somewhere along the way, you're relative got into this country....some legally, but plenty illegally. Enough time and generations have passed, so you just think of a white person as American. But i still feel it is a PRIVELIDGE(sp?) to live in this nation. I (and many of you) were lucky enough to be born with that privelidge. Many others aren't so lucky,.... neither were your relatives(most likely).

All I'm saying is realize where most of us came from(being Europe). Even if your great great g-pa came here legally, YOU didnt do shit to get here. Just realize that anyone born here, especially white people like me were dealt a pretty damn good hand. Just appreciate it, dont get the ignorant idea that you deserved to be born here. Thats some midieval "Divine Right" bullshit.

suprarx7nut said:
Ok, this will surely bring up some issues with someone but here the current situation in my hometown of Denver, Colorado.

The DPS and APS (Denver and Aurora Public Schools) systems are at an all time low and have fewer and fewer English-speaking students. Kids can't pass basic tests, struggle to read, write and do simple math. This is all due to a dramatic rise in immigration. Legal or not. I'm NOT saying its the kids fault or their parents, but there is most definitely a direct coorilation to the amount of immigrants and the degrading schools. There are plenty of hard working Mexican immigrants and I have a lot of respect for them. But there are plenty that are not helping our education system. I have more to say, but i gotta go.

I'll be back for more
Again, i gotta be quick but...

I was going for the fact that the DPS and aurora schools were fine until hispanic immigration became widespread in the area. with the hispanic immigrants (naturally) comes many, many non-native English speaking kids. many of whom can learn fast, but many do not.

Its almost impossible to teach math, reading and writing as fast to a non-english speaking kid as an english speaking kid. So the teachers now must incorporate basic english teaching in with math/science/reading which DRAMATICALLY slows the learning of anyone who can speak the official language of this country.

Not to divide our youth and further the racial gap, but I think making some Spanish-English only schools would be a good idea here. That way everyone can get a more well-balanced eduaction. The english speaking kids wont get fucked like some are now. Its not any of the kids' faults but something needs to be done.

If everyone was the child of a legal immigrant, they would most likely be speaking english. (Its tough as shit to get in the country legally if you dont speak english and if you speak it, you'll teach your kids it as well.) just common sense.
 

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lagged said:
EDIT: ill no longer converse with you. youre obviously a biggot and ignorant. thats all.

furthermore, this thread should have been deleted and locked after post #1.


because my opinion is different than yours?


you need to get to know me before you make judgements about my character

but if you want to run and hide because i say something that hurts your feelings, you are defeating the purpose of an open discussion on an open forum.

i have mady my points without calling anyone names, i really wish you had done the same, but it's easier to call someone stupid, ignorant, and a bigot than to post facts and thought out opinions.

as far as this post needing to be locked, you were warned thiongs could be offensive, in fact the original title of this thread was a suguestion to start this sub-section, i didn't tille it illegals..i don't think it was the right label to put on it, it wasn't the original intent, but it's not my call, the thread was about the heavy handed methods used by the gov't. but as conversations go in real life, it evolved into something else, and after much thought, i'm fine with that. i'll defend what i say, i'm not going to stop talking to someone because i don't like what they say...if i had that mentality, i couldn't even be on this forum....even s/c and d/t say a lot of crap i don't agree with, i just chose my battles.

i would rather spend a few moinutes a day arguing with someone i have something in commom with, thand spend all day hanging out with someone who agrees with me....that would make for a boring exsistance.

how about instead of ending the dialogue, you explain how our choice of terms is different? raoze almost got me to chance how i say things, and it was only after much thought(and i got an extra day thanks to someone)and conversations with my minority friends,. that i decided to keep to my old ways, because p/c america is still dividing people by color, i think i's bs to be forced to change by someone doing the same thing.


i'm sorry you are pulling out of the conversation, you might have taught me something. i'm not as closed minded as you seem to think i am.
 

Supracentral

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After looking this thread over, I think it's best it end here.

First, read my post about "name calling":

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showpost.php?p=426398&postcount=138

With that said, I've re-read this thread from the beginning and here's what I see:

trucker - although your original intent may have been to compain about the Federal Governement's treatement of your wife, your racial slurs in the very first posts were intended as derogatory comments against an entire nationality. It's pretty ugly stuff. I understand your rage at your wife's treatment. We've all been angry and had that anger get misdirected. But that 1st post should have been the end.

There were however some other tangents that happened in this thread that were good discussion, and I think that's why this thread was allowed to go on.

So I'm going to end this thread here, but if anyone wants to continue the discussion without the racial slurs, feel free to start a new thread on the topic. This thread is just too much of a mess to salvage.
 
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