Illegal Exhaust Ticket... Again.

ret

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Different Supra, same results. I picked up an 88 in October with a full Apexi Titanium exhaust, and am just now getting pulled over. I'm impressed I made it this far, granted my other Supra was much louder with it's Megan muffler and God only knows what exhaust.

Anyways, I'm thinking of options for battling this case. So far I have two thoughts. One, I'm pretty sure my exhaust is actually as quiet, if not quieter, than a stock Supra exhaust. And since the law of VA states "OEM or like OEM equipment," but gives no mention to either in form or function, I could test the dB levels. Apexi claims under 95 dB, anyone know what the dB level of stock exhaust is?

My second argument is simply the product statement from Apexi's site:

http://www.apexi-usa.com/categories/?id=5314
All A'PEXi exhaust systems comply with applicable emission laws since they neither modify nor relocate the required factory emission control devices; they are considered "direct replacement" parts. Such parts do not require a CARB Executive Order (EO) since they are not "add on" or "modified" parts. A'PEXi exhaust systems are "functionally identical" to the OEM parts during emission tests. Sound levels are tested on stock vehicles before the product release to ensure compliance with the 95dB limit.
My only issue with these are that I don't have a receipt for the exhaust, so I'd have to prove that I'm not making that up, I guess with pictures detailing the exhaust?

Last option is just to get a shop to print off a receipt saying my exhaust has been changed.

Anyone who's fought the fight have any input?
 

Supracentral

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I'd print that page out and give it to the solicitor. Tell him your exhaust complies with VA law and that the case should be dismissed.
 

SupraMario

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I'd print that page out and give it to the solicitor. Tell him your exhaust complies with VA law and that the case should be dismissed.
This.
Problem is you gotta do it before you go to court or your gonna be eating court cost, unless you state you will not pay them if the case is won. I don't exactly know how that works out, but like mike said BRING those with you!
 

supra90turbo

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If VA is anything like MA, that won't hold up. ANYTHING other than a stock replacement is illegal here. Even a stock replacement's noise is "left to the discretion of the officer".

Not trying to discourage, I wish you all the best. By all means, prove me wrong!
 

Supracentral

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Any law that vague isn't valid an needs to be challenged. Any law that leaves things up to subjective opinion tends to get struck down on appeal.
 

ret

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If VA is anything like MA, that won't hold up. ANYTHING other than a stock replacement is illegal here. Even a stock replacement's noise is "left to the discretion of the officer".

Not trying to discourage, I wish you all the best. By all means, prove me wrong!
I've won this case before by simply replacing the muffler with another aftermarket one. It didn't matter which one, just the fact that I had it replaced and had a receipt to show that I had it replaced was enough for the judge to dismiss the case entirely.

While I could do that again, I'd prefer not to, just because I like this exhaust, and because I don't have any spare parts related to this laying around. Still, getting a receipt is an option, but I feel like that will cause more harm than good in the event that I ever get pulled over again, so I'm hoping to just convince the judge that the exhaust, according to written law, is legal.
Any law that vague isn't valid an needs to be challenged.
I agree 100%, this law specifically is way open to interpretation, and for that matter, isn't enforced fairly at all.

This.
Problem is you gotta do it before you go to court or your gonna be eating court cost, unless you state you will not pay them if the case is won. I don't exactly know how that works out, but like mike said BRING those with you!
Last time it was dismissed and I didn't need to pay fees. Either way, I have until June 30th to figure this out. Just pregaming so I know where I'm going to go with this. :p
 

hvyman

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Sucks.

I just got pulled over yesterday for exhaust and old purple tint with a 93db greddy sp exhaust(had ref sticker already tho).
 

supra90turbo

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Here's an idea of how many people it affects in MA: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=massachusetts+altered+exhaust&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

My buddy got pulled over countless times in his '03 SRT-4 when it was stock for "hollowed out muffler", beaten every time, but a hassle nonetheless.

Massachusetts: Chapter 90: Section 16. Offensive or illegal operation of motor vehicles said:
No person shall operate a motor vehicle on any way which motor vehicle is equipped (1) with a muffler from which the baffle plates, screens or other original internal parts have been removed and not replaced; or (2) with an exhaust system which has been modified in a manner which will amplify or increase the noise emitted by the exhaust.
Virginia Code § 46.2-1049 said:
� 46.2-1049. Exhaust system in good working order.

No person shall drive and no owner of a vehicle shall permit or allow the operation of any such vehicle on a highway unless it is equipped with an exhaust system in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual levels of noise; provided however, that for motor vehicles, [highlight]such exhaust system shall be of a type installed as standard factory equipment, or comparable to that designed for use on the particular vehicle as standard factory equipment.[/highlight] An exhaust system shall not be deemed to prevent excessive or unusual noise if it permits the escape of noise in excess of that permitted by the standard factory equipment exhaust system of private passenger motor vehicles or trucks of standard make.

The term "exhaust system," as used in this section, means all the parts of a vehicle through which the exhaust passes after leaving the engine block, including mufflers and other sound dissipative devices.

Chambered pipes are not an effective muffling device to prevent excessive or unusual noise, and any vehicle equipped with chambered pipes shall be deemed in violation of this section.

(Code 1950, � 46-305; 1952, c. 455; 1956, c. 651; 1958, c. 541, � 46.1-301; 1960, c. 120; 1970, c. 266; 1972, c. 66; 1989, c. 727; 2006, cc. 529, 538.)
Seems like Virginia's exhaust laws are very similar to Massachusetts' laws. I would suggest getting with SEMA and the SEMA Action Network to stop the ridiculous laws from popping up every week.
 

Mark32JZ

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just an idea for future events, look up the laws on exhaust tickets in VA and look them over, I found in Maryland if they pull me over and say my exhaust is too loud I can ask to see the decibel meter readout they used to determine this and if they can't produce it, no ticket. So maybe there is something you can do to try to prevent future tickets or show proof to the officer that it is indeed legal, but as for the current case Im sure if VA has a law that it needs to be under 95 decibels, or whatever the max is and it needs to be OEM or like OEM equipment, as long as you can prove that it complies with that it should be a slam dunk win for you, good luck though
 

hvyman

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Usually its up to the officers digression.

Either way if they say your exhaust is too loud and give you a ticket your the one who has to pay.

Both of which are stupid since harleys have the loudest exhausts wait no they dont have mufflers and were getting tickets.
 

Nghty89

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I just picked up a ticket yesterday after several months of driving. Megan 3" exhaust. He said nothing about the noise, he just mentioned that it had to look or be stock.

By the way, IIRC, All tickets in VA now require a $66 court fee if you go, even if the case is dismissed. I just got off of an inspection ticket and I still had to pay. I doubt they will dismiss it. Va is the worst police commonwealth (not a state, as they will vehemently tell you) I have ever seen. Everything here related to vehicles is illegal.

Funny thing is how long I went with no ticket on it. I've driven next to cops without any trouble, and did not receive a ticket when I was pulled over for the inspection back in February. I was driving low in the gears too so it was not loud. I hate VA..... and I will always hate VA. For many reasons, this place is hell.
 

Supracentral

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In general, government exists for the purpose stated below:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

And how is this accomplished by using the force of law to make you have an exhaust system that "looks" stock?

You people should fire every damned one of your politicians.
 

Nghty89

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If I could, I would. Trust me. Too many people just roll-over and submit though, so it is very difficult not to get steam-rolled here in Court on anything traffic or Auto related.



They tried to take my mother to court because the eves (the small vertical space of board just beneath the edge of the roof) had old paint and the wood grain was beginning to show. They wanted $700 because we did not paint it in the time frame they provided. For, NOT peeling paint, but FADING paint.

It is also an ordinance in the city of Virginia Beach that one cannot work on their car in their driveway. I have received several tickets/warnings for having my cars parked in the driveway with no engine, even if the tags were good. Granted this may be due to someone complaining, but still. Seriously? I hate this place and will move the moment I am able.
 

Supracentral

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Vote with your tax dollars and leave. I told NY to go fuck itself back in 1992 for similar reasons...
 

san supra

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a little off topic but i have family in va and ma, i live in texas and never get hassled.
if i visit family in my supra with my blitz nur spec loud as fuck exhaust do i still get a ticket for violating local law or do i get by because i am under another states laws?
 

Supracentral

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My MKIV has a Tanabe Racing Medallion with no baffles and I don't get hassled in GA, it really depends on where you go.

Cops general don't stop out of state people for sound ordinance violations unless it's really off the deep end.
 

ret

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a little off topic but i have family in va and ma, i live in texas and never get hassled.
if i visit family in my supra with my blitz nur spec loud as fuck exhaust do i still get a ticket for violating local law or do i get by because i am under another states laws?
In VA, or at least where I live, they'll either leave you alone or they'll pull you over and tell you that you're violating the law, but it'd just be a warning.
You people should fire every damned one of your politicians.
I prefer a public hanging.
 

nick88

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I love a state where the only law is that you have to have a cat and a muffler. And a license plate 12 inches above the ground, and my supra passes that, and its pretty damn low. And if asks about a cat, yeah I have one take a look, but he can barely see under the car so he just looking under it and cant see anything.
 

supraphoenix

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I got a warning in CO, the officer said that I had to have stock exhaust or its a ticket. I looked up the regulations and its by dB. I'm sure cops just say that to give the ticket and try and get away with it. Know your laws and then if the cop wants to give you a ticket get his card, that always helps
 

te72

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I love a state that doesn't even require a cat... They really don't give a shit here in WY. As long as it has turn signals, head and tail lights, and windshield WIPERS (don't need a windshield, but you damn well better have wipers...), you're good to go. And with that, I'm off to work. :)
 

DreamerTheresa

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Just finding more and more reasons to love that state...

Can't wait to visit in June.
 

Nghty89

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This is why I want to live in South Carolina, or Texas. Love both of those places.
 

Poodles

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Not all of Texas is that cool guys... Not to mention the heat and boring landscape for the most part.
 

Supracentral

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Not all of Texas is that cool guys... Not to mention the heat and boring landscape for the most part.
I lived (crashed on a friends couch for a couple of months in my 20's actually) in Plano. Texas doesn't completely suck...
 

Poodles

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I wouldn't say it "sucks" just that it's boring and the summer is absolute hell... The DFW area is pretty flat and boring IMHO, Austin isn't bad though, but it seems to be the exception. Drive an hour in any direction from DFW and there's NOTHING.
 

Nghty89

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Summers don't bother me. If they did, I wouldn't be considering shipping the supra/mr2 over to live with the grandparents in Puerto Rico. XD

But that goes for any place, not all of everything is great. Minus Supras and MR2s... <.< >.> <.< .... minus 7m's.
 

Poodles

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110F with no wind and the sun beating you to death... Yeah, I didn't mind summers either when I lived in Florida, but it's a blast furnace here...
 

te72

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Just finding more and more reasons to love that state...

Can't wait to visit in June.
If you guys are gonna make it to the Rock Springs area, lemme know. If it's on a weekend, there's a pretty good chance I'd buy you guys dinner or something. If it didn't snow here, I wouldn't mind the place nearly as much, that's my biggest gripe really...

110F with no wind and the sun beating you to death... Yeah, I didn't mind summers either when I lived in Florida, but it's a blast furnace here...
You ever go to Arizona man? Try ~120F with no wind, 18 hours of sunshine (seems like anyway), and nearly everything is paved, at least in Phoenix. Should visit there in July or August, just for the experience. *Wolfgang Krauser from the Simpsons voice* THE A/C DOES NOTHING!
 

Volvospy

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I've been reading the whole thread, and I think I should add this info. I had a ticket for loud exhaust with my VA dealer tag a month ago. I said this car is for sale, but the officer said under VA law I still have to make my car legal on the street. Well, I ended up paying for the damn ticket because I think it was just my unlucky day. And today, I got a female cop pulled me over again and for the same reason. She said if I don't fix it, my driver license can be suspended, is this true? This is all horseshit. I remember I used to have a WV dealer tag and never got harrassed like that. I think probably if I can have a dealer tag from a state that is different than VA, I'll be good. But now that in my record, there are bunch of tickets for loud exhaust, I don't think they're gonna leave me alone even with out of state dealer tag. Anyway, anyone in DC VA MD has a black Supra with stock exhaust? I need a picture of your car with my VA dealer tag on it, please help me if you can. Thank you!
PS: I never got pulled over with my Volvo even with only one personal tag in the rear. Cops are stereotypying people no matter what!
 

Nghty89

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Funny thing is, it wasn't a LOUD exhaust ticket. He didn't seem to mind the sound, more the fact that it doesn't LOOK stock. I go to court for it on Thursday. I have a stock-ish muffler I am using as the replacement, even though she is currently my weekend driver.
 

ret

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So I went to court for this ticket this morning, and here's the results I got.

$91 fee - $30 fine for the illegal exhaust, $51 court fee, $10 processing fee.
I went into the courtroom, waited for days, finally got called to the stand and plead not guilty. I handed the judge a print off of from Apexi's website (what I quoted in the OP), and told the judge that my exhaust is actually quieter at WOP than a factory exhaust, pointed out that the page said functionally identical and direct replacement, it didn't seem to phase him at all. He pretty much told me he didn't care, by saying that the website will say whatever it can to make a sale. He then turned to the officer to ask him how loud it was, to which he replied something along the lines of, "Well it must have been pretty loud for me to have pulled him over." (Though I was in 5th gear going 45 mph down hill, so what, around 1800 RPMs 0 throttle? AKA REALLY LOUD!)

Meanwhile, while I was waiting someone got off with driving with a suspended license in a car that had failed inspection, someone got their sentence reduced from 80 in a 55 so that it wasn't reckless, and the charges dropped for underage possession of alcohol while driving, yet I do absolutely nothing wrong but have a shiny exhaust and the judge brings down the hammer? I'm not a fan of crying about things being unfair, but this seems a bit too ridiculous to me.

Someone elect me President. I'm going to fix this country.
 

A. Jay

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If you guys are gonna make it to the Rock Springs area, lemme know. If it's on a weekend, there's a pretty good chance I'd buy you guys dinner or something. If it didn't snow here, I wouldn't mind the place nearly as much, that's my biggest gripe really...


You ever go to Arizona man? Try ~120F with no wind, 18 hours of sunshine (seems like anyway), and nearly everything is paved, at least in Phoenix. Should visit there in July or August, just for the experience. *Wolfgang Krauser from the Simpsons voice* THE A/C DOES NOTHING!
Where my mom and oldest brother used to live in Arizona it would get down to 65F...at night...in the winter. Like Walter (character by Jeff Dunham) once said: "'But it's a dry heat!' A fire is a dry heat, you don't see me sitting my ass in one."

(...)

Someone elect me President. I'm going to fix this country.
(http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?125543-US-SAF-Sues-to-Overturn-North-Carolina-s-Emergency-Powers-Gun-Bans):

(...)
Negative - the president is easily overpowered by Congress. We need to replace not only him, but a vast majority of the 100 Senators and 435 Representatives if you want to get anything meaningful done
(...)
You're gonna need some friends elected, too. Yea, it sucks, looks like they're out to get you or something.
 

Nghty89

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Typical VA. I just paid it, didn't change the exhaust, and didn't go to court. Haven't been bothered since with it even when I take it out running on the weekends...
 

ret

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Sounds like typical Virginia
Typical VA.
Unfortunate though it is. I'm ready to move back to PA and become Amish again.
I just paid it, didn't change the exhaust, and didn't go to court. Haven't been bothered since with it even when I take it out running on the weekends...
I'll be doing this I suppose once I get my car fixed. The Supra hasn't actually seen much road time since then, too busy with work to just replace the fuel pump. :runaway:
Where my mom and oldest brother used to live in Arizona it would get down to 65F...at night...in the winter. Like Walter (character by Jeff Dunham) once said: "'But it's a dry heat!' A fire is a dry heat, you don't see me sitting my ass in one."
I like the reference. I don't mind the heat, I do mind the humidity. I'll still take like 60-70 degree weather or colder though.
(http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?125543-US-SAF-Sues-to-Overturn-North-Carolina-s-Emergency-Powers-Gun-Bans):

You're gonna need some friends elected, too. Yea, it sucks, looks like they're out to get you or something.
Seriously, it's ridiculous. I bet they're just scared of my potential, and want to impede me from doing incredible things they can't even fathom.
 

A. Jay

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(...)
Seriously, it's ridiculous. I bet they're just scared of my potential, and want to impede me from doing incredible things they can't even fathom.
I have a similar thought in my head at all times, along with "one day...they'll see..."
 

te72

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So I went to court for this ticket this morning, and here's the results I got.

$91 fee - $30 fine for the illegal exhaust, $51 court fee, $10 processing fee.
I went into the courtroom, waited for days, finally got called to the stand and plead not guilty. I handed the judge a print off of from Apexi's website (what I quoted in the OP), and told the judge that my exhaust is actually quieter at WOP than a factory exhaust, pointed out that the page said functionally identical and direct replacement, it didn't seem to phase him at all. He pretty much told me he didn't care, by saying that the website will say whatever it can to make a sale. He then turned to the officer to ask him how loud it was, to which he replied something along the lines of, "Well it must have been pretty loud for me to have pulled him over." (Though I was in 5th gear going 45 mph down hill, so what, around 1800 RPMs 0 throttle? AKA REALLY LOUD!)

Meanwhile, while I was waiting someone got off with driving with a suspended license in a car that had failed inspection, someone got their sentence reduced from 80 in a 55 so that it wasn't reckless, and the charges dropped for underage possession of alcohol while driving, yet I do absolutely nothing wrong but have a shiny exhaust and the judge brings down the hammer? I'm not a fan of crying about things being unfair, but this seems a bit too ridiculous to me.

Someone elect me President. I'm going to fix this country.
RIGHT HERE... you should have fought this. Did he have any quantitative measurements of how loud your car was? I tell this to the people who tell me I have the music on too loud at work: Turn your hearing aid down then.

Seriously man, everybody's a little different, but the law isn't exactly grey, it's pretty black and white. They HAVE to prove you broke a law. Could an officer give you a ticket without proving that he paced you or got you with a radar? I mean, some cars *look* like they're going fast even when they're parked. Some cars sound loud to some people and not to others. Follow me so far?