High compression high RPM 7M-GE build

andrew_mx83

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Thanks, some good info there and nice to know the 2j alternator fits without too much work. The mechman looks like a great piece of kit but more than I'm looking to spend unfortunately.
There are a million "high output" rewound 2jz alts on ebay in the 160-200 amp range but it seems there are mixed reviews on their performance. There's plenty of 7m options upto 150 amp as well, I wonder if the DM unit is just one of these?


I had thought about using a modern ford (or other brand) unit but I'm unsure how to wire them into the car as they all seem to have less connections on the back than the 3 (batt, ign, light) I'm used to on toyota alts.
 

Yotarip

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I know your steering system is already finished but converting your hydraulic system with an electrically assisted column from a toyota yaris would be pretty easy with the skills you have. I helped a buddy with a yaris steering conversion to his 94 toyota mini truck. Works great.
 

andrew_mx83

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Great info, thanks! I thought the electric column would have been much harder but a quick Google reveals a few easy looking options. I had a customer ask if it can be done the other day so will pass it on.
 

andrew_mx83

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Ok ive been chipping away at the small jobs on this over the last couple of weeks and feel like im finally getting somewhere.

Rebuilt and installed a starter motor



Got onto a brand new genuine toyota 130 amp alternator from a 1KD engine which went in pretty easy. Ive since changed the pulley to a shorter one so it has a some clearance to the fan





Finished off the plumbing side of things. Clutch is done, power steering done, oil lines done bar one fitting to tighten up, water lines done, pcv done, brake booster done, fuel lines done and filter installed.
So far as i can tell, every hose on the car is now brand new.
Next step i guess will be to fill it all with fluids and leak check/bleed everything. Bonus of all the electric accessories is i will be able to "bench test" most of it before even trying to start the engine.

I bought an AC/DC TIG and have been (slowly) learning to weld aluminium with it. Raditor outlets have been moved but im having trouble getting pinholes in one of them so getting a mate over next week to help sort that out.
Fans are mounted to the radiator already. They miss the motor by about 10mm MAX :/

Got an airbox out of a Chrysler Voyager V6 and somehow managed to squeeze it in.






Ive got a throttle cable kit coming in the next few days, once that's made and the radiator sorted then the mechanical part of the build will be basically complete and i can move onto wiring it all up and maybe even starting it. I'm getting excited!!!!!
 

Piratetip

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Your new components are very nice and clean, looks great.

What do you think of the Technico cam gears?
I am thinking of picking up a set for myself.
 

andrew_mx83

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Thanks Nick.


My opinion on the cam gears is probably a bit biased because i make them, and all the other Technico parts :)
The main reason I developed the cam gears is that i wasnt happy with any of the other aftermarket offerings, they all have an aluminium outer gear section which wears away from the timing belt in a relatively small number of miles. I have a couple of other brand aftermarket gears here with nearly half the tooth worn away.

The OEMs all use steel (well, sintered metal) for their cam gears, and with good reason. They will do over a million miles with no sign at all of wear. So my adjustable gears use the stock toyota outer section and a billet aluminium adjustable centre section.
I'm currently rebuilding the head on a 7m i built around 8 years ago, which was fitted with one of the very early sets of adjustable gears. It's done over 100,000 hard kms in that time and apart from the zinc plating wearing off where the belt runs (which happens in the first 100 miles anyway) there is no damage or wear whatsoever.


I trust your other parts arrived safely, i have one pair of 7m gears left in stock. Once these are gone it will be some time before i have more as ive nearly exhausted the local supply of stock gears and i havent been able to buy them brand new like i do the JZ ones. Maybe somebody stateside has a stash of them hidden away they can sell me....
 

Piratetip

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Hah!

Well that makes perfect sense then.
Its a small world after all :D

Yes the parts I got from you arrived packaged very well, thanks!

Good to meet someone else also continuing to make quality parts for the MKIII.
Pretty much the same route I am taking with my build, when the part is not available that meets my needs, make it myself.

Agreed on the steel outer, OEM's do it for a reason - longevity.
Aftermarket parts makers don't always grasp these important points, or they have no clue the implications of material selection.

I bet there are quite a lot of people with OEM cam gears lying around.
They switch to aftermarket and forget about them.

I will shoot you a message on that last set you have.
 

andrew_mx83

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So ive been working away at this and getting it closer and closer to starting.
Throttle cable, radiator and fans all done and installed. I've been chipping away at finalising the instrument cluster and that's nearly done too.
You can see just how little room there is for fans but they do fit. They wrap around the top of the crank pulley with minimal clearance also.





With the radiator done it was time to fill er up with fluids:
Filled gearbox and transfer with oil
Filled clutch fluid and bled. Had a hell of a time getting it to bleed up and i still have a tiny weep from one of the fittings which is a pain but at least i have a pedal now.
Filled it with water, sorted out a couple of pinholes in the bottom radiator hose hardline that i welded, filled it with water again and no leaks woo hoo. Hotwired the electric water pump, got things sloshing around and bled all the air out.
Filled the power steering, hotwired its pump as well and bled it the air out. Power assistance works well although the pump is noisier than i'd like. It's a bit weird having power steering without the engine running!!
Filled the engine with running in oil, wired up the starter and oil pressure switch and cranked til i got pressure -only took as a couple of seconds as i primed the pump pretty well. Doubt there's much over 10psi yet and the oil was cold but so far no leaks. Pretty stoked that my bulkhead fitting out of the oil pump and through the sump seems to be working so far. Engine takes 6.6 litres on a dry fill, up from 5.1 standard due to the lines, cooler and modified sump.

So that's all the fluids filled, bled and ready to go.


Ive started working away on the ecu and wiring in earnest, have most if it nutted out now. Still need to find a nice fuse and relay box to put somewhere for when i do the power side of things though.
 

andrew_mx83

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It's alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got the ecu and wiring finished late last week and on Good Friday it fired up for the first time but would only run for a few seconds then die

Added some more VR conditioning inside the ecu around the campfire while i was away, refitted it when i got home Easter Monday and was able to get it running pretty well, good enough to go out for a test drive and road tune even :D
Been rooting around with it all week fixing little issues and also chasing a random misfire which i finally nailed down today to the ignitors in the ecu not coping with firing 2 coils each so ive added 3 more BIP373's and the spark is miles hotter, i took it for a quick test drive and seems like the misfire is all gone. Happy days!!

It's only tuned pretty roughly and i havent had it much over 4000rpm yet but already it pulls like a train. Loads of torque and instant throttle response. The tune is getting better though and it's already pretty driveable now especially with the misfires fixed. It lights up the tyres as soon as you even look at the throttle, needs an LSD asap. Cant wait to see how it goes once tuned properly and i can get it up on cam.

The R150f frankenbox seems to work well, can select all gears, no nasty noises at all to speak of. Gearing feels pretty good too, damn that 0.69:1 5th is tall. Will be great on the highway.

Power steering works great too although it takes quite a few seconds to pump up.

Electric water pump system seems great so far. Engine gets upto temperature really quickly then fluctuates back and forward from 85 to 86 degrees, right where the "thermostat" is set on the controller. Even when being driven hard it doesnt go over 86. Fans pull monstrous amounts of air and only ever run for a few seconds.

Clutch leak is a pain in the ass. Doesnt lose any fluid sitting overnight but as soon as you drive it the reservoir is empty in about 15 minutes. Ive replaced the AN fitting at the end of the bleed line but the leak is further up, in the bellhousing. Doubt ill fix it without pulling the gearbox but ill try.

Need to muck around with the instrument cluster a bit more to get the tacho and oil pressure light working, ive also got a couple of oil leaks to fix but nothing major.

Off to the dyno Sunday morning to see if we can get the tune dialled in a bit better, cant wait to see how it goes once i feel confident in giving it some beans!!!
 

andrew_mx83

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"Stock" ecu


Engine loom


All wired for sound


Front end back together for the first time in a while


Don't rev it past the $$$ sign!!!
 

Piratetip

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Looking good Andrew.
Nice work fitting a DIY 52 pin MS3 setup inside a stock ECU!
Good to know that actually fits.

I almost like that method more than what I was planning to do moving to a MS3 Pro w/ adapter harness...
Hmm, giving me good ideas. :D
 

andrew_mx83

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Thanks Nick :)

The diypnp that I used is actually based around ms2/microsquirt. I've tried to fit the ms3x combo into the stock case before but it doesn't fit :(

I've really stretched the IO of the diypnp to get it to work, running semi seq fuel and waste spark. That gives me just enough to keep knock control, stepper motor idle, flex fuel, wb02, table switch input and the ACIS VSV. I have zero spare IO pins now.

Full sequential fuel or spark simply aren't an option on a 6 cyl. Even adding the third injector driver was a pain as it uses the same cpu output as the stepper driver.
Semi/batch is fine for my NA but most turbo guys like full seq

I've also used up the whole proto area now I have all 6 BIPs in there to run my dumb coils, plus the third injector driver and Bluetooth module.

If you do go down the diypnp path I can talk you through what's required. It's a good ecu but a long way from plug n play...
 

Piratetip

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Ah yeah microsquirt. Makes sense as it's much more compact. Good to hear it will run a 6 cyl even though you have maxed out it's capabilities. What is the max sampling rate speed it can handle for data logging?
 

andrew_mx83

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Well, Sunday didnt go as planned.





One of the fancy push lock hose fittings, straight out of the oil cooler, burst off mid pull and emptied 6.5lt of oil onto the dyno room floor in about half a second. By the time we buttoned off it was already too late. It lost over 50kw on that pull compared to the previous one so we knew some damage had been done.

This isnt a good start...




Big end bearings were pretty tired and had wiped bearing material all over them, crank journals werent looking too bad though.



6 out of 7 mains were absolutely perfect, you could nearly have reused the bearings.
Unfortunately the centre main bearing spun and welded itself to the crank. The thrust bearings are pretty cooked too.





Will drop another crank off at the machine shop this morning for all the usual treatments, find another set of bearings and cross my fingers ill get away without line boring the main tunnel.
Sad days.



On the plus side, the tune is 90% done and it was making stonkin' power for an NA 7m. We've still got more timing to add and a few more revs to play with. We started with the rev limiter at 6000, bumped it upto 7000 for the last few runs but it hasnt fallen off the cams yet so we'll go for 8000 or higher once it's back together.
A stock rebuild does around 100rwkw so im pretty happy with the 150ish its at now, with a bit more to go.
Nice flat torque curve should make it pretty driveable too. Looks like we need to move the ACIS switching point up a bit to get rid of that dip at 4500rpm but that's easy fixed.
Oh, and ill be wiring a low oil pressure cutoff into the ecu as well. Shutting the gate after the horse has bolted and all that.
Not sure what ill do about the oil hoses yet but needless to say all the pushlock rubbish is going in the bin.

 

Piratetip

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Wow that's a tough go Andrew.
Tuning looks good though for a NA!
Hopefully you can get it back together without too much headache.

This is one of the primary reasons I decided to ditch the full flow oil cooler setup.
Once you realize a hose has let go its already far too late and the damage has been done.
Setting up a low pressure fail safe is a very good idea moving forward for sure.

A good analogy for running full flow setup:
Running a hose from your heart's pulmonary artery -> outside your body then back inside -> to the lungs where it would have normally just taken a straight path to.
Will it work? Yeah sure.
Is there more risk doing it this way? Definitely.
If one small thing goes wrong, you are dead in short order.
Full flow setups are literally playing with the life blood of the engine.

Lots of people have zero issues running these full flow setups, but there is always the chance.
You beat the odds.

About how many seconds before you were able to see the issue and shut down the engine?
 

3p141592654

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3rd gen RX7 has a factory full flow oil cooler loop. I think its really about doing the engineering right and using the right components. After all, the stock oil pump pulley has been known to explode, and that's going to be just as bad as losing a hose in a full flow.

FD_oil.jpg
 

Piratetip

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Agreed, there are multiple OE vehicles that run an external oil cooler or remote oil filter.
Some Ford Trucks, Chevy Blazer, RX7 ect..

Andrew is clearly not a novice engine builder, but mistakes do happen.

Also agreed the weaknesses of this engine need to be corrected for, anything overlooked will come back to bite you later.
 

plaaya69

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Congratulations on getting it running Andrew but I am sorry to hear about your oil line. Glad to hear you are moving away from those pushlock lines.
 

3p141592654

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Not my intent to cast any aspersions, its pretty clear there's lots of talent behind this build. The pushlock hoses at first look seem ok. They are rated 300 psi typically, but critically for the best high temp hose at 150C. They derate rapidly above that temperature, and for oil 150C really is too low. The standard hose is worse at 100C max. I think we can all learn here.
 
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Enraged

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Sad to see the carnage, good to hear you aren't letting it slow you down.

I didn't know about the temp/pressure ratings on pushlock, thanks for posting that. I was thinking of using pushlock for my oil cooler setup, but now I think I'll stick with standard braided stuff.
 

andrew_mx83

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Thanks for the kind words guys
Unfortunately it seems i was given a bum steer with this pushlock stuff, and the hose in particular. Pretty pissed off as i went in asking for braided and was told this was better, more repairable in the bush if needed etc. What they didnt tell me that ive just found out is the stupid hose they supplied is only rated to 100c! WTF!! How do you sell oil hose thats only rated to 100 degress??!?! So much rage at my hydraulic shop right now. Ive been going to the same place for around 10 years, they man i deal with there is a car guy and has been in the industry for 15 + years. How he could sell me this shit when i came in asking for the right stuff is beyond me. Needless to say im f*cking angry.

Oh well, life goes on. Ive got the front of the motor all stripped down and the gearbox/transfer are ready to drop out as soon as i get some extra muscle over.

New, teflon braided oil lines are being made today with proper crimped fittings

Crank will hopefully be back by end of the week or early next, ill sort out the clutch and a couple of other small jobs while i wait.


Interested to see the carnage when i finally get the crank out, looks like the bearing turned to liquid at one point and started to run down the thrust bearing :(




TBH its been pretty heartbreaking pulling apart all this stuff i just spent so many hours putting together, but ill push through. Hopefully im less of a sad panda once it starts going back together again.
 

andrew_mx83

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Still havent got the crank back from the machine shop unfortunately so ive been chipping away at all the small unfinished jobs with the hope of having it pretty much ready to drive as soon as the engine goes back together.

Gearbox and clutch/flywheel out which allowed me to remove the crank. The centre main bearing came out with the crank and had to be removed with a hammer and chisel. Shit got hot. Surprisingly the rest of the crank is pretty good.










Got some spankin new oil lines made up with proper crimped on fittings. Apparently this is the same stuff the v8 supercar guys use, it cost a bomb but hopefully it wont let me down!
I actually got to crimp the fittings on myself with their fancy hydraulic tool which was kinda fun. This hose has an amazing bend radius so i ditched the bendy spring things and ran the main line back into the motor a bit neater than before.





Changed a few little niggles in the wiring, mostly PS pump and fans now only come on when the engine is running but not while cranking, on/off/auto switches for both and a warning light for if the fans are disabled.
Unfortunately the ecu doesnt have provision to do an oil pressure safety how i would like it so instead ive set the oil pressure switch up as a table switch input into the ecu, then zero'd out all the fuel cells above 1500rpm in the second fuel table which basically gives me an oil pressure based rev limit. Should allow the car to start at least and wont give me a hard (possibly dangerous) shut down if i lose pressure on the road.
Made up a little circuit with relay logic to drive the R150f transfer case electric actuator to engage 4x4 without the need for the Toyota A.D.D. ecu



Sorted out a speedo drive
Sorted out the clutch lines, bench tested it all and no leaks woot
Made up a couple of little brackets so the WRX seats now have the 4th bolt in each
Shortened and re-ran the throttle cable slightly so it's lighter and not sticky

Got a few more little jobs to tidy off but im anxious to get the crank back so i can start reassembling the engine. We are going camping at a big private property in just under 4 weeks and i'd really really like to take this thing along. This trip last year is what inspired me to buy a 4x4 in the first place after riding around the property in a couple of other utes, i'd really love to have my own there this year. Just have to reassemble half the engine and car, shake it down, get it engineered, get a roadworthy, get it registered and then shaken down enough to go on a big trip 4 hours from home. I sense a few more late nights coming up....
 

NashMan

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never was a fan of push locks sad that all that happend this is why I only run aeroquip fittings socket fittings they cost alot but they are the best and grip the hose the best fallowed by earls in second
 

andrew_mx83

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Well after a long wait at the machine shop i got the crank back just over a week ago. In the meantime i had chased up some nice NDC bearings for it and knocked a few other jobs over.
Main one was getting an LSD fitted in the rear and rebuilding the whole diff while i was at it. New bearings and seals throughout, new brake shoes and a tricked up limo centre to be nice and tight. I had to buy a press to do the damn wheel bearings, they arent an easy change. This also meant disassembling and reassembling the drum brakes, which i hate with a passion!


Fitted a fire extinguisher, charcoal canister, gearbox/diff breathers, added an extra exhaust hanger, wired up the reverse and 4x4 indicator lights and a heap of other little jobs.
Been playing with the idle speed stepper motor and have got it to move at least now, but not properly. Still working on that one.

Got offered a battery for it that was too good to pass up, 1400cca and 490ah deep cycle AGM. Built an alloy box for it to sit in the corner of the tray and ran some heavy ass cable upto the engine bay where it goes into an isolator switch and a jump/charge terminal. This will be the sole battery so i have a nice little volts/amps gauge coming that will allow me to run the fridge/lights/etc and have them turn off automatically when the voltage drops too low, still i expect this should run the fridge for a good few hours before that happens!




With the space left over from the battery i hard mounted my little compressor and added and air line/tyre inflator under the bonnet, save having it all rattle around behind the seats.




Onto the more important news!

I got the engine back together during the week and fired it up again on Saturday. It ran well with no huge leaks or nasty noises :)
By sunday i had the rest of the car together enough to take it for its first decent drive, all the way out of my suburb even!! It's the first time ive driven it more than a couple of blocks since the day i bought it. Tune still needs some work but on the whole it runs really well. So torquey and responsive, it just pulls instantly when you touch the throttle no matter what speed you're doing.... and when you punch it, lets just say an old 'lux shouldnt be able to move like that!!! It's scary as hell but hilarious at the same time.

Got a few more small issues to sort out this week, hope to have it a bit more sorted by the weekend.
 

NashMan

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easy trick is take an old house and plate the bottom and use that a jib when pressing in new barrings
 

andrew_mx83

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Took the Hilux for an extended road test over the weekend including some off road work at the mrs family's farm a few hours northeast of melbourne. Did about 600km all up with no issues which im bloody stoked about!!!
Went really well off road too, i had a ball. It just eats up big hills no questions asked. Im still getting the hang of the low range gearing but it just pulls no matter what gear its in.

F*cking terrifying on the road in the rain though.


[video=youtube_share;hanyotYPEUs]
 

plaaya69

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You sure did move quickly to get everything back together again. Those new oil lines look very nice and beefy.

Off roading in a 7m sounds very fun, glad to hear you are able to enjoy it.