Driveline Vibration

IJ.

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#1
Car harsh on acceleration or deceleration?

Most people point to the Centre Bearing as the culprit but even a badly worn/floppy one is seldom the cause.

Check that the Rear Bonded tube in a tube hasn't slipped out of phase, just sight along the Uni joints they should all be perfectly in line.
(common failure with these cars)

A good "fix" for this issue is to take the shaft to a DS shop and have them replace the bonded rear section with a tube making the DS a true 2 piece.


(thanks to Gaboon for the pic)
 

gaboonviper85

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#2
Both ujoints should be centered in the "GREEN" line....the redline is showing how far out of phase the rear bonded tube slipped!

This caused my car to shake really bad at 40+mph....not only that but it wiped out the transmission tail housing bearing "bearing that the outside of the driveshaft yoke slips into behind the oil seal"....this also destroyed my centre support bearing!

This was in an 87 na...but also goes for gte cars as they use the same rear halves...
 

paradox616

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#7
They can but if they are clunking you'd sure as shit know it! They make all sorts of noise when they fail!
i doubt its the uni's then, its more of a clunk when for example your in second decelerating (engine is putting resistance on the drive-line) then you apply throttle and begin to accelerate and then resistance shifts and the drive-line puts resistance on the motor. (if that makes sense)
 

gtsfirefighter

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#9
Ok. So today I finally had the chance to get up under my car. The first pic is looking straight up at the u-joint just behind the center bearing. Sorry, but it's a cellphone pic with me under the car and very little clearance. I did have the car in neutral and rotated the shaft so that that knuckle in the pic would be straight up and down.



Here is a pic looking down at the last u-joint. Notice how it's offset some. Does this mean my shaft is out of phase? If so could this have caused my first center bearing to fail? After replacing it, the center bearing, last week I noticed the vibration was worse.

 

IJ.

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#10
If it's out of phase Yes and Yes, it will be more noticable either on power ore backoff, most times it's harsh on overrun when you lift off the throttle and let it engine brake.
 

gtsfirefighter

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#11
If it's out of phase Yes and Yes, it will be more noticable either on power ore backoff, most times it's harsh on overrun when you lift off the throttle and let it engine brake.
So would you say from looking at those pics, it's out of phase?

My acceleration feels very "course" and when decelerating like on the freeway it feels like I'm driving over very fine bumps, more of a loud buzzing feel.
 

IJ.

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#12
So would you say from looking at those pics, it's out of phase?

My acceleration feels very "course" and when decelerating like on the freeway it feels like I'm driving over very fine bumps, more of a loud buzzing feel.
ie: "Harsh" ;)

Need a pic along the shaft to be 100% sure but it's easily visible to the eye when they're out of phase so you tell us :)

The Uni's should be perfectly in line!

o---------------o
 

gtsfirefighter

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#13
ie: "Harsh" ;)

Need a pic along the shaft to be 100% sure but it's easily visible to the eye when they're out of phase so you tell us :)

The Uni's should be perfectly in line!

o---------------o
Well I couldn't get a pic of the whole back half of the shaft from under the car, but I'm going to assume that it is because with the front straight up and down, the back is cocked off to one side. So the search for a remedy begins before I destroy this newer bearing. Money will be the issue, especially while going through a divorce.
 

IJ.

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#14
You have a couple of options, find a straight shaft and install it along with a balance or have the bonded section replaced with a straight tube making it a true 2 piece (this is what I've done in the past)
 

gtsfirefighter

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#15
So one more question. If I take a good stock rear section and just bolt it up without taking the whole shaft in for a balance will it for sure vibrate or will it just be a crapshoot and I could get lucky and it won't?
 

mecevans

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#17
i usually have a ton of vibration anything over 25mph. its really fucking annoying. today i was backing out of a lot and i gunned it in reverse to get on the other side of the road. i now have NO vibration!kind of a ghetto fix but i been driving it all day and its smooooth! :)
 

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#18
Well I replaced the rear section with a used piece and had success...for a little while then it all started again and got worse! I ordered a transmission mount and replaced my old oil soaked one and that in itself made a huge difference in the way the car felt cruising down the highway. It raised the rear of the tranny up over an inch but I still have the harshness on decel and accel. So...An entire new DS is on it's way from Shaftmasters. If that don't fix the issues then I don't know what I'm going to do 'cause I fear it may be diff or tranny related. But everytime I've replaced something driveshaft related, it made a difference, so who knows. Taking off from a stop I still have the grinding feel every now and then that feels like it's coming from the rear of the vehicle. The supra is my daily now but sometimes I think an SC 400 would look good in my driveway.
 

gaboonviper85

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#19
A trans won't cause ungodly vibrations no matter what's wrong...it's either broke without question or smooth as ever!

Did you have the ds balanced after you replaced the rear section?
 

airhead04

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#20
I get a vibration from the rear of my car, but only in 1st gear between 2000-3000rpms. And it squeaks when I slow down, Idk what it is. Could it be the driveshaft or is it the diff???:1zhelp:
 

gtsfirefighter

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#22
A trans won't cause ungodly vibrations no matter what's wrong...it's either broke without question or smooth as ever!

Did you have the ds balanced after you replaced the rear section?
No I didn't and couldn't have if I wanted as the new carrier bearing is shot now and most likely was before putting that other rear shaft on.
No worries though, I bought a one piece from Shaftmasters. The sent me one too long and as soon as I called David to tell him, they made me another and shipped it same day, so it should be here early this week.

what happened to the pics? I was about to show this to someone and the pics magically disappeared
Which pics? I'm at work and picture hosting websites are blocked so can't tell.
 

Grandavi

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#24
I am curious..

A. is there an aftermarket place that sells these specifically for the Supra (the single shaft)

B. is there any caveats to having one constructed? (weight and balance really shouldnt factor in as long as the length and strength are sufficient is my guess)

C. Why is it constructed this way in the first place? Seems to me to be flawed engineering unless there was a specific reason to it.

D. Can you repair this yourself (with a vice and a busterbar)

I have a vibration when I drive that has been driving me buggy the last 2 weeks but the car is being parked for some body work and winter, so I will check this.

Many thanks for this post. It is a good eye-opener!
 

sparkplug619

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#25
I am curious..

A. is there an aftermarket place that sells these specifically for the Supra (the single shaft)

B. is there any caveats to having one constructed? (weight and balance really shouldnt factor in as long as the length and strength are sufficient is my guess)

C. Why is it constructed this way in the first place? Seems to me to be flawed engineering unless there was a specific reason to it.

D. Can you repair this yourself (with a vice and a busterbar)

I have a vibration when I drive that has been driving me buggy the last 2 weeks but the car is being parked for some body work and winter, so I will check this.

Many thanks for this post. It is a good eye-opener!

http://www.driveshaftshop.com/
 

gtsfirefighter

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#26
Well I ordered a steel single piece driveshaft from Shaftmasters. The first one they sent was too long. I called David and they made a new one and shipped it the same day. I got it today, and it bolted up with no issues. I then take it for a drive and the initial response was awesome. However, when I reach 50-55 mph, I begin to get a constant vibration that feels like a constant deep bass hum and when I let off the gas to coast the vibration is ten times more harsh than what it was before. I put it in neutral and still had the vibration. After 55 mph it is constant, unlike before.

Now, first off, I am NOT bashing Shaftmasters. David has offered exceptional service. I've got an email into him with the same above information. My question to yall is...Is there anything else that could be causing this or do I just have an out of balance shaft? If it is out of balance, I have no doubt that David will do right by me. I really wished there was someone local who could drive my car and tell me what the fuck is wrong. I'm seriously becoming "disenfranchised" with this car and am about ready to throw a For Sale sign on it. The process of elimination that I'm going through is becoming very expensive.

So any insight would be helpful and much appreciated.

Kenneth
 

gtsfirefighter

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#28
Checked the backlash in the Diff yet?

While the car was up on jack stands and the new shaft attached, I put the car in park and tried moving the wheels back and forth. There was virtually no slack to be felt and if there was it was less than 1/4 inch. My car has 145k miles on it. So it felt pretty tight. I do still get that grinding feel somewhat when taking off in a turn, never when taking off straight forward. It is much less with the new shaft, but I do still feel it a little.
 

IJ.

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#29
Jack it up in neutral park brake on firm and see if you can move the driveshaft, then park brake off and turn the shaft and see if you can feel any harshness in the front diff bearings.
 

mecevans

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#30
balance those wheels? half shafts? diff? im betting it might be a bearing. my uncles maxima has sealed for life bearings but the races or something is jacked up. gets a hum like you describe after 65.
 

gtsfirefighter

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#31
Jack it up in neutral park brake on firm and see if you can move the driveshaft, then park brake off and turn the shaft and see if you can feel any harshness in the front diff bearings.

I'll have to do that tomorrow when I get home from work. How much play, if any, am I looking for for it to be considered bad?
 

IJ.

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#32
I'll have to do that tomorrow when I get home from work. How much play, if any, am I looking for for it to be considered bad?
I'd say anything more than 1/32 of a turn would be "bad", but the condition of the pinion bearings will determine how stuffed it is Ken. (I've killed 2 sets)

If the old 2 piece was out of phase it's more than likely hammered the pinion bearings into submission.
 

Victor Charlie

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#33
Thank you IJ. I have this too, vibration on highway after clutching, and even more when coasting in neutral, so thanks, I have some things to check.

Anyone have info on that question about what the purpose of the 2 piece drive shaft design might have been? Most mods seem to have trade offs, so I wonder if there is any disadvantage to a one piece driveshaft?
 

shaftmasters

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#39
Well I ordered a steel single piece driveshaft from Shaftmasters. The first one they sent was too long. I called David and they made a new one and shipped it the same day. I got it today, and it bolted up with no issues. I then take it for a drive and the initial response was awesome. However, when I reach 50-55 mph, I begin to get a constant vibration that feels like a constant deep bass hum and when I let off the gas to coast the vibration is ten times more harsh than what it was before. I put it in neutral and still had the vibration. After 55 mph it is constant, unlike before.

Now, first off, I am NOT bashing Shaftmasters. David has offered exceptional service. I've got an email into him with the same above information. My question to yall is...Is there anything else that could be causing this or do I just have an out of balance shaft? If it is out of balance, I have no doubt that David will do right by me. I really wished there was someone local who could drive my car and tell me what the fuck is wrong. I'm seriously becoming "disenfranchised" with this car and am about ready to throw a For Sale sign on it. The process of elimination that I'm going through is becoming very expensive.

So any insight would be helpful and much appreciated.

Kenneth

Ken,
We did want to let you know that out of all the Supra single piece shafts we have sold. We have never had a situation like yours. We do not sell 10% as many Supra shafts as we do Nissan 240SX and 300Zx shafts but it is still between 100-150 that we have sold. This includes aluminum shafts and steel shafts like yours. Single piece shafts with no center bearing and no rear "rubber element" section will tend to show differential vibrations as more pronounced. The "hum" on acceleration and vibration on coast and decel that you have described to us does make us want to say "pinion bearings". But, check it out and if you need to send the shaft back we will of course honor our "money back guarantee".
Thanks, David
 

gtsfirefighter

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#40
Ken,
We have never had a situation like yours.
I've heard that a lot. Why do I always have to be the first. :biglaugh:
Now I feel obligated to find/fix the issue for the sake of all supra owners.

I'm nowhere near ready to throw that shaft in a box and send it back yet.
Ok, back to the garage to jack the car up and crawl underneath it...my favorite place to be.:: facepalm ::


BTW David, I caught your email before this.