Dok's E85 powered 2jzge-T build

dok33

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#1
UPDATE: Dyno Numbers are in-533rwhp/497ft-lbs!!

By doksurf33

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSMFGmMleyw

Payoff Vid!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8vj6x7eMuQ




Big thanks to everyone who helped out (in person and w/questions) and provided info about their swaps: Jon (mobes), Scott (hottscennessey), yankiwi, p5150, sethron71, RacerXJ220, people over at CNA-T

Specs:
Engine
-93 2jzge w/130k, TT headgasket (after blowing the stocker)
-SSAC T4 Manifold
-Masterpower T70 w/polished intake and ceramic coated exh housing
-Custom 3/8" turbo spacer, PTP turbo blanket
-HKS knockoff 50mm wastegate
-Aeromotive FPR Kit, 2L surge tank, Bosch 044 external pump
-880cc injectors
-Modded 7MGTE plug wires, 89 Mustang o2 sensor (spliced to 7M plug)
-Chinese 2j downpipe to 935 3" DIY exhaust with cat and Megan GT muffler
-CX Racing 7M intercooler/fitted hardpipes (accidentally bought with "make offer" on fleabay, didn't think they would take $250 lol)
-Greddy Type S knockoff BOV
-Chinese special 4" intake pipe
-PWR Radiator w/Hayden fan and flex-a-lite controller
-Hacked 7M lower hose for upper, hacked 2jzgte lower hose for lower, custom heater hoses
-Tons of stainless lines etc.

Electronics etc
-Apexi SAFC/Lex AFM
-LC-1 Wideband
-TurboXS dual stage boost controller
-Prosport boost and a/f gauges
-$30 Sony cd player from the junkyard and rockin' stock speakers

Suspension/DT
-South Bend OFE Stg3 clutch, stock 1jz flywheel
-Eibach's with Tokico HPs
-TT wheels (235/275)
-Tanabe swaybars
-Nightpager z32 brake upgrade
-Shaftmasters 1pc Al driveshaft


Thread Index
E85 Discussion
Quest for 2j and some minor mishaps
Turbo Arrives
7M Teardown
2j Cleanup
Oil Feed
Clutch, FW etc
Wiring Stuff, P/S bracket grind for A/C lines
Motor in, IC piping mockup
Final IC pipe routing
2j TPS wiring
o2 sensor/wiring
Initial completion pics
Driving Tunes
Oh Noes BHG :(
Surge Tank and External Pump
Passed emissions!!!
Payoff Pics
Swaybar install and 300zx Brake swap
 
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dok33

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#2
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

Back story:
My love for the MKIII started in 86 when my uncle bought a 86.5 N/A and stopped by my house on his way home from the dealership. I was 5 at the time and still remember cruising around with "Eye of the Tiger" (lol) blaring in the background. This will be the first thing I listen to when my '89 is on the road.

Flash forward 19 years, finally got my first real job and a house and decided to buy me a MKIII project. 89T, hardtop, red, mint interior w/good paint and body. To top it all off, it was cheap and had rod knock, which she planned since she knew I wanted to build it.

Towed it home from Del Rio (4hrs there, 6hrs back) behind my 4cyl 4-Runner, that was interesting.
Pics:








The car sat in my garage/outside for about 2.5 years while the house and other things took precedence.



Around November of 2007 I decided to go the 2jzge-T route and started collecting parts and info. The swap took about 6mo at my slow as molasses pace but is worth every penny, second, and drop of blood that went into it :)
 
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honestabe

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#3
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

Nice mint condition interior. I'm jealous yours is cleaner than mine (I have a few flaws in mine). Time to be a true Supra owner and detail your non-working Supra inside and out (engine and bay included). :D

Adam
 

dok33

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#4
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

Some pics of go-fast goodies I've been collecting. Stuff everyone has seen before but it makes me feel like I'm actually getting somewhere with my build thread...

T4 manifold:


Rx7 680cc injectors:


935 3" DIY exhaust:


SAFC ($100 ebay find, hope it works):


Walbro:


Driftmotion AFPR kit:


ARP bolts:


ETD IC kit (accidentally bought for $250, didn't think they would take my offer):


Pic of it fitted to someone else's car (mine is still in the box, long way from that step...):
 
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dok33

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#5
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

honestabe said:
Nice mint condition interior. I'm jealous yours is cleaner than mine (I have a few flaws in mine). Time to be a true Supra owner and detail your non-working Supra inside and out (engine and bay included). :D

Adam
I've been saying I was going to for a long time, even bought a clay bar a few weeks ago but I don't even wash the cars I drive :biglaugh:

I do know my weaknesses though, I plan to build the downpipe and exhaust as well as detail it before the engine goes in so I'm not tempted to drive it partially assembled and dirty just to get it on the road like I did the Escort :nono: I drove it for a few months before finishing the exhaust and patching my hasty welds on the downpipe...
 

T34418L3ONE

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#6
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

is that walbro gonna work with E85? I thought you had to have pretty much only SS touching the fuel in an E85 system because of how corrosive it is.
 

dok33

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#7
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

There are a bunch of Subaru guys running them with E85, one for 2 years and 40+kmiles, with no problems. Walbro has actually contacted a few of them and is giving them new pumps in turn for their old ones. They are planning to take them apart as part of research to develop an E85-specific pump.

I've been running E85 in my Escort for about 12k with no problems. Stock pump and lines, CAM AFPR, Vortech FMU etc. Any fuel system made after '88 should be fine as this is when they started putting 10% ethanol in regular gas and most automakers updated fuel system components...
 

T34418L3ONE

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#8
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

wow good to know! I guess all that corrosive stuff is more theory than real world.
 

dok33

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#9
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

I have heard that everything needs to be stainless and all aluminum should be adonized but I haven't seen anyone have major issues. I will say that I'm in no way an expert, just speaking based on my experience and that of others. For all I know my fuel system may spontaneously combust a year down the road but that's part of the fun of trying something new :biglaugh:.
 

T34418L3ONE

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#10
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

Well thanks for showing the community what is possible at your own expense! Are you just tuning with the AFC? I think that might prove a little difficult since and AFC is pushing it on regular fuel and your gonna have to add 25% to compensate just for the e85 right? Just wondering what your thoughts on that were. Sorry for all the questions just e85 really tickles my fancy.
 

dok33

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#11
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

No worries on the questions, I'm always more than willing to answer questions about E85, especially since there are alot of misconceptions out there.

I'll be running 680cc injectors with an AFPR to set base pressure along with a Lexus AFM. Going from a 550cc to 680cc gives me the additional fuel needed to run E85 and tune with AFC just like I would with 550s and the Lex on gas. I'll create gas and E85 maps on the SAFC and adjust base pressure to switch between gas and E85 and thus be Flex-Fuel :)

On the Escort I swapped the 19lb stock injectors for 25lbers and have just been adjusting fuel pressure to switch between gas and E85. This works ok, but I still run fairly rich on gas. I'm working on a home-made extra injector controller so I can ditch the FMU and hopefully get it dialed in a little better.

I also converted an '88 Volvo I had for $20 by just putting in 30% larger injectors. Worked great, but I could only run E85 unless I swapped injectors back and forth...
 

T34418L3ONE

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#12
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

wow, so if you were to have a standalone, then it would be a flex fuel for sure. Man i really hope they get the ball rolling on making this available in CA.
 

dok33

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#13
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

Yup, no problem if you can switch between maps. As a matter of fact, you can configure MegaSquirt to automatically adjust using a GM fuel compensation sensor like factory Flex-Fuel vehicles do :icon_bigg
 

nerfkhat

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#17
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

i dunno where i read it but most cars after like 89 i think are all built to withstand the corrosiveness of ethanol. so "some" of our lines are fine to run e85. i was looked up the e85 conversion kits. there is only like one place that has conversions for lots of cars that i think its dot epa approved.
ok found it www.mye85kit.com
 

dok33

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#18
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

dok33 said:
Any fuel system made after '88 should be fine as this is when they started putting 10% ethanol in regular gas and most automakers updated fuel system components...
The conversion kits like the one you listed (others like full flex gold and flextek) work well on stock vehicles but they're not ideal for high performance applications. They basically just increase the injector pulse width ~30% to add more fuel when running E85. The BEST way is to use a tuning device that allows you to advance timing etc. to take advantage of the high octane, but a fuel controller will do the trick as well.
 

dok33

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#19
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

Update on the Walbro E85 analysis:
Source
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341&page=50

09-20-2007, 07:30 AM post #1248

Guys,
Thanks to hotrod and the others who sent us fuel pumps run in E85 we know a little bit more about what is going on than we did before. We don't know it all yet but we have a couple more pieces to the puzzle. Hotrod's pump showed very little negative effects of running E85. We believe that a fuel pump that is grounded (because the car has a steel tank and steel pump hanger flange) will last longer than one in an ungrounded application (i.e. plastic tank and/or plastic flange). We also think that geographic location also has a lot to do with it. Less humid air in and around Denver probably puts less water in the hortod's fuel tank. We know the least little bit of water in E85 raises hell with components.
That same pump in a car in Houston with a plastic fuel tank and/or hanger assembly flange running E85 with a lot of water in it would deteriate much quicker. How much quicker we don't know. What we do know at this point is that our gasoline pumps will last a long time under certain conditions and fail rather quickly under other conditions.
So I order to offer an E85 pump that will last in ALL conditions we need to make design changes and we are looking at those right now. Thanks for your help and we will keep testing.


shoeboxrich
 

dok33

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#20
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

Got my v-band 2j downpipe kit today :drink1: Quality isn't bad, material is a little thin but the welds look good. I hate welding little bungs on stuff so this was worth the $$ to me! Thanks to Aaron at Driftmotion I saved a few bucks over fleabay too...



Just need the turbo now and I can mock everything up and fab my downpipe and exhaust.
 
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dok33

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#23
Re: Dok's 89T HT 5spd E85 build

I've started cleaning up some poorly painted interior parts (gasoline FTW) and doing some other small stuff.

Got my Type-S knockoff BOV a couple days ago ($25 ebay find):


Supra off the storage jackstands in preparation for moving into the 'business' side of the garage:


Goodies piling up (bunch of stuff inside too), bonus to anyone who can find all of it:


Got some major parts on the way (pics to come) and sold a bunch of crap on ebay to pay for the South Bend StgIII clutch I'm planning on using. Also decided to take my shortblock to a machine shop and get it checked out since it's been sitting for a couple of years and all I have is the POs word that it has been machined for a mhg. Need to take the head in and get it mhg-prepped too, hopefully the machine work won't run too much...

Edit-after looking over my expenses and a few new goals for the project I decided to change the title of my build thread :)
 
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mobes

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#24
Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

Hey, this is Jon from the meet (I had the orange 350z).

That looks like a nice clean car to start from. Just needs a buff and wax :)
I used the same downpipe for my 1JZ. I put a flex section in mine and swapped the bottom flange for a V-band though. Let me know if you need a hand or any random little parts (big stuff gets eBay'd but I have a whole slew of bolts, clamps, etc).
 

MDCmotorsports

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#26
Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

I love the direction you're going in your build, but you have a slight problem.

Pure alky takes 1 and 1/2 times more fuel than petrol.

So, if you had a 550cc/lex setup, you'd need 1000cc injectors with the lex setup on alky or even e85.

Also, you'll need another fuel pump other than the walbro.

Its not meant to be used with alchohol based fuels.

Last, you'll need to find out what signal (volts) a petrol based o2 sensor will have for output to the ecu.

It should be different when running alky VS petrol.

You'll need some way to fool the ecu into thinking the signal is correct.

HTH...
 

dok33

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#27
Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

Thanks for the compliments, I'm looking forward to getting it done.

MDC-I have some 680cc injectors I'll be using with the Lex, E85 requires ~30% more fuel so with a little more base pressure I should be a-ok. Quite a few people run Walbros with E85 (check NASOIC etc.) with no issues, I've been running one in my turboed Escort for a while with no problems. If you look at pg1 of this thread I posted some info about research that they're doing on E85 with their pumps.

As far as AFR goes, lamba is the same (and thus o2 sensor voltage) for a stoich. burn no matter what fuel you're using. Air/fuel ratios are scaled differently between gas and E85 (9.76 vs 14.7 for stoich), but you can leave the scale alone and tune for gas AFRs with no issues.

I'm running 30% larger injectors on my Escort and it runs great on E85 with no tuning. The ECU adjusts the same based on O2 sensor readings no matter what fuel I run, my afr logs from the wideband look the same whether I have the larger injectors and E85 in the tank or stockers and gas.
 

86_sports_1jz

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#28
Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

looking good so far, hope to see pics of the turbo mounted on the motor soon
 

MDCmotorsports

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#30
Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

dok33 said:
Thanks for the compliments, I'm looking forward to getting it done.

MDC-I have some 680cc injectors I'll be using with the Lex, E85 requires ~30% more fuel so with a little more base pressure I should be a-ok. Quite a few people run Walbros with E85 (check NASOIC etc.) with no issues, I've been running one in my turboed Escort for a while with no problems. If you look at pg1 of this thread I posted some info about research that they're doing on E85 with their pumps.

As far as AFR goes, lamba is the same (and thus o2 sensor voltage) for a stoich. burn no matter what fuel you're using. Air/fuel ratios are scaled differently between gas and E85 (9.76 vs 14.7 for stoich), but you can leave the scale alone and tune for gas AFRs with no issues.

I'm running 30% larger injectors on my Escort and it runs great on E85 with no tuning. The ECU adjusts the same based on O2 sensor readings no matter what fuel I run, my afr logs from the wideband look the same whether I have the larger injectors and E85 in the tank or stockers and gas.


Interesting. Keep me posted. :)
 

dok33

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#31
Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

Good to find someone else who appreciates Yota trucks, I've had it since I was 15 :)

Turbo may end up mounted to a different motor, stay tuned...
 

dok33

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Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

mobes said:
Hey, this is Jon from the meet (I had the orange 350z).

That looks like a nice clean car to start from. Just needs a buff and wax :)
I used the same downpipe for my 1JZ. I put a flex section in mine and swapped the bottom flange for a V-band though. Let me know if you need a hand or any random little parts (big stuff gets eBay'd but I have a whole slew of bolts, clamps, etc).
Sorry, missed your post. Thanks for the offer, I will definitely let you know. I'm planning on putting a flex section on the DP, I figure I'll probably have to cut it and do some modding to make it fit anyways since it was made for a 2j. I might need some tips on how to get my POS HF fluxcore working better, I think I remember you saying you modified the wire feed on yours somehow...

Update on the motor I briefly mentioned in my last post-I was very close to heading the 2jzge-T route over the weekend, Zoonwen was selling a 2jzge on ebay and he just happens to be fairly close to me. To make a long story short, I got outbid and my stupid ebay text messages didn't work so it sold to someone else for $255 :3d_frown: I've already got 2x everything else, and if I went this route, I'd have a 7M to swap into the 4-Runner (something I've been wanting to do since Robert Jackson did his swap a while back).

I have a lead on another one with lower mileage but I can't agree on a price with the seller. Maybe it's a sign I should stay 7m and get it freakin' done. Probably not a good idea to have 3 vehicles with engine swaps anyways :yelrotflm
 

dok33

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#33
Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

It's done, thread title changed AGAIN lol...



2j with 80k, including harness, ECU, all accessories, intake, and HKS SAFR. Getting pulled tomorrow, picking up Wed. night :evil2:

Not 100% sure yet, but I'm thinking about running low boost (12psi) with the stock c/r for now and then putting a 2mm HG in later on down the road. Would make a responsive torque beast and should be ok since I'll be running 105 octane fuel (E85). Need to do some more research...

Anyone got a 1j flywheel, bellhousing, and motor mount brackets??? :naughty:
 
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dok33

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#34
Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

Dodged a bullet on the 2j, found this on SF (this is the guy I was getting the 2j from):

WARNING ALL SUPRAFORUMS MEMBERS. x95SupraNAx (aka Heath Wilson) is the Austin student that STOLE PARTS AND DAMAGED GAMIMNON'S CAR WHILE IT WAS AT BOOSTLOGIC. Please permanently ban this ass. He is YET to re-imburse Gamimnon for ANY of the damages he caused to Gamimnon's supra while it was at BoostLogic. Supra thieves should NOT be allowed in this community!
 
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dok33

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#35
Re: Dok's 500hp for $5k on corn build

Well damn, I feel like I'm on a 2j powered roller coaster. Just talked to zoonwen, the buyer on his motor backed out so now it's mine for $250 with harness, ECU, and accessories... Picking it up Sunday, then it's time to get crackin on the swap:
 
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dok33

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#40
Woot, 341hp in my 4-runner (225 in the back and 116 in the front):


Progress will be slow for the next few weeks, lots of family in town, going to the Orange Bowl, and no $$ for a bellhousing, motor mounts, and clutch....