Car not starting randomly? READ THIS (30 Amp Starter Relay Mod)

gsxr141

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Oct 24, 2010
Messages
1,162
Location
rochester
no click, just nothing. if i tap the starter a couple times it will start. i went with the bosh thinking it would be better. ugh!
 

hvyman

Dang Dude! No Way Man.
Staff member
Super Moderator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
12,754
Location
Orange, CA
Need a denso. Off the shelf boush is not so great.
 

MkiiiAllDay

Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
159
Location
orange, CA
Did the mod and my car starts every time now, just need to sort out the engine bit now



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
8,812
Location
U.S.
Didn't do the mod and car starts every time, always.
 

supranewbie

Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Messages
380
Location
46°47.0'N 120°09.0'W
It's a wonder any of our cars ran before we were able to bail them out with a modification or two. Toyota clearly knows nothing about building a dependable vehicle.

Instead of "fix" though, I should have said fix or replace.
 

jdmfreak

PACNW
Authorized Seller
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
2,232
Location
north clark co. WA.
Nice pi, I like it.... Why not spend 20 minutes locating and solving the actual problem then spend 20 minutes adding a additional circuit to a failing one??

I got into a argument with a guy that has worked in a shop for 25 years just the other day when he told me to do this to my wife's truck... He said "why waste time trying to diagnose a problem when you know adding another relay will fix it?"

"fix" really dude??
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
8,812
Location
U.S.
I got into a argument with a guy that has worked in a shop for 25 years just the other day
Was he a military "mechanic"? Not to be confused with a warrant officer.
 

ZoomZoomZoom

On the road again..
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
444
Location
KY
It's a wonder any of our cars ran before we were able to bail them out with a modification or two. Toyota clearly knows nothing about building a dependable vehicle.
Toyota does, and they know what they are doing. Back in the 80's, a car that lasted 100k miles was a good car! The average number of miles put on a car in a year was 10,000 to 12,000 miles (I remember this from filling out the auto insurance questionnaire with good ol' pencil and paper). If you went over the "average", you paid more for insurance. At this rate your car would last about 10 years. Unless you were in the rust belt, then 10 years was a miracle.

Those who owned Supras back in the 80's could answer this better than I - in the first 100k, did the car need major work ie, radiator, water pump, alternator, wheel bearings, TPS or just basic maintenance? My guess is that these car ran to 100k with just the basic maintenance.

In contrast, our 2010 Toyota Camry has recently turned 200k. The *only* major work done on this car was replace a wheel bearing. It has the original water pump, original exhaust, original radiator, original suspension (!) etc. If you drove or saw this car, you would never know it has over 200k on it. The standard now is a car that lasts 200k and does 20k per year. Of course our Camry has been through much more than that because my husband is in the military. Just about every month it still does an 800 mile round trip to Ft. Leonard Wood.

Most of us are dealing with 80's Supras with well over 100k and all are 20+ years old. A lot of parts are not made anymore and we are trying to make do. Most of the OEM stuff was better than the aftermarket, but not all. So we join a forum to help each other out, to find out what works and what doesn't.

But don't knock the car or knock Toyota. They did the best they could with the technology and materials of that time period. And they continue to do so.

BTW: I've never done this 30amp relay mod on any of the 4 MKIII Supras I have owned. I did learn that the OEM Denso starter is the only way to go. If you resort to doing this mod, then its a band-aid for other issues in the electrical system, IMHO.
 

Satan

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Messages
1,599
Location
Tampa
I have never had an issue with my Autozone or non-Toyota starters either...

Glad to see this thread is still alive and bullshit continues 255 posts later. Talk about difference of opinions. I guess replacing the 7M headgaskets shoulda also been done with stock bolts at OEM torque, and OEM equivalent headgasket (like FelPro). Just look at the freakin' tech tips and other mods for frequent/stupid issues like this... Modifications and aftermarket components do not appear anywhere in the TRSM. Use it, or do something different (hint - it's your car, you make the choice). Fix it how you feel is best for your situation and quit being jackwagons at others who don't necessarily agree with you.

If U don't care for or value the differences in opinions for addressing an issue, why not just STFU? Has this really now become the Supraforums we were trying to get away from a few years back? :dunno:

There's been enough good/bad info and opinions in here. Can't we just lock this Fing thread already, so the righteous and the wrong can stop w/the butthurt??
 
Last edited:

Poodles

I play with fire
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
16,757
Location
Fort Worth, TX
I have never had an issue with my Autozone or non-Toyota starters either...

Glad to see this thread is still alive and bullshit continues 255 posts later. Talk about difference of opinions. I guess replacing the 7M headgaskets shoulda also been done with stock bolts at OEM torque, and OEM equivalent headgasket (like FelPro). Just look at the freakin' tech tips and other mods for frequent/stupid issues like this... Modifications and aftermarket components do not appear anywhere in the TRSM. Use it, or do something different (hint - it's your car, you make the choice). Fix it how you feel is best for your situation and quit being jackwagons at others who don't necessarily agree with you.

If U don't care for or value the differences in opinions for addressing an issue, why not just STFU? Has this really now become the Supraforums we were trying to get away from a few years back? :dunno:

There's been enough good/bad info and opinions in here. Can't we just lock this Fing thread already, so the righteous and the wrong can stop w/the butthurt??
It's not in the same ballpark as upgrading the headgasket at all. The better correlation would be to have the old blown head gasket motor act as the starter for the new engine you somehow stuffed in the engine bay. That sounds really stupid, right?

Now you know what this "fix" sounds like to anyone that understands electrical systems.
 

Satan

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Messages
1,599
Location
Tampa
Not comparing the "fix" or mod at all... Just stating that difference of opinions and INNOVATION of enthusiasts have provided all kinds of good (and bad) stuff. This thread continues to encourage fucked up debate, instead of just acceptance of a difference of opinions.

The dead horse has been beaten throughout and still continues to be. All of the info for the RIGHT and WRONG way has already been provided, as well as enough supporting arguments (and bashing) for both. No new beneficial info is being provided, just more opportunity for negative statements/debate. All I see now is SF off-topic trolling-type of behavior/replies in the thread bumps, encouraging bashing of those who've disagreed (which has already occurred enough, I think). My bad, for even looking at the thread again... I thought there was more useful/technical info being added with the newer posts.
 

jdmfreak

PACNW
Authorized Seller
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
2,232
Location
north clark co. WA.
I would be more than happy to walk someone through a voltage drop test if they asked or point them to one of multiple YouTube videos out there(it is just as easy as doing this"mod" ) , but when people continue to add a additional circuit to a failing one as a fix It seems as though they haven't read the thread beyond the first post
 

Satan

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Messages
1,599
Location
Tampa
^^I replaced the entire circuit. All of the info is already here, but would be great if you could contribute with examples/vids of the process. Might help some others.
 

ZoomZoomZoom

On the road again..
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
444
Location
KY
..
... Just look at the freakin' tech tips and other mods for frequent/stupid issues like this... Fix it how you feel is best for your situation and quit being jackwagons at others who don't necessarily agree with you.

If U don't care for or value the differences in opinions for addressing an issue, why not just STFU?

There's been enough good/bad info and opinions in here. Can't we just lock this Fing thread already, so the righteous and the wrong can stop w/the butthurt??
.... No new beneficial info is being provided, just more opportunity for negative statements/debate...My bad, for even looking at the thread again... I thought there was more useful/technical info being added with the newer posts.
Please do, move on. Because your colorful language is not admirable and, as you say, you have contributed "No new beneficial info.."
 

hvyman

Dang Dude! No Way Man.
Staff member
Super Moderator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
12,754
Location
Orange, CA
Ok the little kid bickering can stop now.
 

miekedmr

mkiii in hibernation
Authorized Seller
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
511
Location
Upstate NY
I'm a little late to the party but I had an idea:
I'll do the 30 amp relay mod, then I'll add another relay to turn THAT relay on. Then another relay to turn THAT one on.
Then I'll post some pictures and recommend everyone follow suit, and take comfort in knowing I have caused my fellow forum members at least a dozen brain aneurysms. :biglaugh:
 

Satan

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 31, 2005
Messages
1,599
Location
Tampa
^^Thanks for your technical contributions. A post, to talk about another post, in a thread you were not already a part of. Smart. We need your superiority here! Welcome to the new Supraforums Off Topic section.

I just "brought a friend" to the thread, to show him the "stock" circuit and normal-troubleshooting method (not what I did), since he is having starting issues. I've copied out the entire thread, so that he can have it to reference and not have to join this circus/forum. Thanks again!
 

3p141592654

90T
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
4,097
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA
Maybe this will add some value, who knows... top problem areas:

1) Starter motor itself (bad copper contacts in starter solenoid)
2) Ignition switch
3) Pax side kick panel starter relay
4) NSW switch (A/T only)
5) bad clutch interlock switch (MT only)
6) mangled/damaged/loose starter wire connector at starter.

Use voltage drop test to troubleshoot 2-4.
 

miekedmr

mkiii in hibernation
Authorized Seller
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Messages
511
Location
Upstate NY
Satan: Sorry guy, was just an attempt at comic relief --I wasn't really trying to insult you or anyone else. I definitely don't think I'm superior. I'm a hobbyist who embarrasses myself all the time, like when I advised someone on here to buy the wrong type of motor mount. :(
My post was as much to poke fun at people getting upset at this mod as anyone doing it. That someone figured out a relatively simple way to get their cars to start reliably is of value, even if it's not ideal, IMHO. Many people out there can't even be bothered to go to get oil changes regularly, let alone troubleshoot electrical problems on their own. Most on this forum are relative geniuses compared to drivers in general.
That said, even when people are jerks about it, some of them provide a lot of knowledge at no cost to us. Someone occasionally berating me on a forum for being wrong or just not fully understanding something or even just rubbing them the wrong way is not that big a price to pay for access to the expertise here.
Sorry to post more off-topic crap, but I felt it was a *little* on-topic given the argument in this thread.
 

SiberianDVM

New Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
97
Location
Augusta, GA
This thread is just too epic to be allowed to die.

Lately my 89 Mk3 ChumpCar has been showing the symptoms of intermittent starter solenoid failure. Since one of my drivers was over this weekend, we decided to investigate. Removing the starter from the engine was a major PIA. I can only imagine how much harder putting it back in is going to be. Once we got the POS out, we disassembled the solenoid, and one of the contacts is about 90% worn away. The other contact and the center piece that actually moves show only mild wear and oxidation. I ordered a new contact. If they show up I will replace it and spend a couple of hours trying to get that darn starter back in. If the piece is NLA, I will have to make one out of copper plate.
 

Attachments

SiberianDVM

New Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
97
Location
Augusta, GA
Got 2 new solenoid contacts online delivered for about $32. 15 minutes to reassemble and then 1 hour to get the darn starter back on by myself.But it works.
 

3p141592654

90T
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
4,097
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA
Congrats. In my experience, the simplest way to get the starter on is to remove the alternator and run a 3foot extension from the front of the engine to the starter bolts. Also,for 91/92 the starter is threaded, so that is another way to simplify the install.
 

SiberianDVM

New Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
97
Location
Augusta, GA
Congrats. In my experience, the simplest way to get the starter on is to remove the alternator and run a 3foot extension from the front of the engine to the starter bolts. Also,for 91/92 the starter is threaded, so that is another way to simplify the install.
Didn't think about removing the alternator. The hardest part for me was pushing the starter up from the bottom through the maze of hoses and wires and getting it located. Removing the clutch slave cylinder helped a bit but the fuel lines were the biggest hindrance.
 

Backlash2032

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
1,823
Location
Nebraska
I need to check voltage at the starter when cranking. I've replaced just about everything, as I thought it was a starter switch issue at first. Cleaned the starter switch.. Cured it for awhile.. Now I've replaced the starter switch.. Still does a weird click.. crank thing. Replaced the connector at the starter, and it helped. A little less of a click before the crank. But it still worries me. If the voltage at the starter is less than a half a volt less or so than battery voltage ill probably replace those contacts.
 

JDMMA70

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Dec 4, 2006
Messages
2,670
Location
Houston
This thread has gone on for too long. I too am having these issues, but I refuse to do the extra relay. After searching through the internet for a while, I found a "how to" courtesy of Toyota to step by step diagnose the starting system. I will share it with you all. Its helping me find my real issue.

View attachment h7.pdf

Starter_VoltageDropTest.gif~original.gif
 

Backlash2032

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
1,823
Location
Nebraska
For me it actually did end up being the switch. Didn't realise that even though there's a starter relay, all current goes through the starter switch. I figured it just tripped the relay. So silly me, I wired in a cheapo switch with whatever size of wire I could find. Didn't work too well. Replaced it with a high current switch (20 amps at 120v) and proper 10 gauge wire (iirc) and no more issues. Had 30-40 starts yesterday at the autocross (didn't wanna heat soak sitting in line) and absolutely ZERO issues.