Brian Crower 7M cams and ignition timing issue

BLACKCAT

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Got the car dynoed:
1 - stock cams & extractors with too much intake cam advance (134rwbhp)
2 - stock cams & extractors standard cam timing (143 rwbhp)
3 - BC264 cams (152 rwbhp)
4 - BC264 cams (160 rwbhp) different cam settings

Mine picked up gains from 4700+ with around a 20rwbhp gain at 6000.

My stock torque peaked around 4,500 & really dived from 5,600.
The BC cams torque starts to really improve from around 4,500 & peaks around 5200 & is still good to 6000.

Idle quality is ordinary but at least its now developing around the same bhp as a stock auto 2JZ.

With a manual setup & headwork it would probably obtain around 190rwbhp running the standard ECU.
 

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Ma70.Ent

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Those are pretty good increases. How's your engine? Is it crapping out, or is it really just that low cause of auto? Also, what is your whole setup?
 

BLACKCAT

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MX83 auto (A340LE) 1990 Cressida with 238k
Hurricane extractors (Aussie brand as the US brands wont fit easily)
2 1/4 inch from end of extractors, standard cat, mid & rear muffler
Titan adjustable cam gears
BC 264 cams
Everything else standard

I dont think 160rwbhp is low as it was measured on the Australian dyno which is always a lot more conservative than your US figures.
Remember than a good condition stock MX83 will put out around 120rwbhp (90kw) on our dynos.
I have not seen a Aussie dyno graph with higher figures than mine, with similar mods, on a auto 7MGE.
 

Ma70.Ent

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BLACKCAT said:
MX83 auto (A340LE) 1990 Cressida with 238k
Hurricane extractors (Aussie brand as the US brands wont fit easily)
2 1/4 inch from end of extractors, standard cat, mid & rear muffler
Titan adjustable cam gears
BC 264 cams
Everything else standard

I dont think 160rwbhp is low as it was measured on the Australian dyno which is always a lot more conservative than your US figures.
Remember than a good condition stock MX83 will put out around 120rwbhp (90kw) on our dynos.
I have not seen a Aussie dyno graph with higher figures than mine, with similar mods, on a auto 7MGE.
Ohh, a Cressida. This means you've got slightly less power since you don't have ACIS :D

Well that, and you're running a somewhat restrictive exhaust! If you opened up the exhaust, you'd gain a lot of power IMO! This is pretty cool. How much did these cams cost you again?
 

amichie

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7M-fanatic

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amichie said:
Blackcat looks good.

I have ....... questions.

1. What gear was the selector in for this test?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TODA...010QQitemZ200186148576QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Well, according to the screen shot he is showing,
on what info was not whited out (?),
the run was made in second gear (?).
Taking a lot of trans drag in 2nd.......
Drive would have been better (1:1).
But maybe that dyno is not capable of that sort of wheel speed....

And when you dyno an automatic, it helps to have an override switch to make sure the torque converter lock-up clutch is fully engaged.

You think you had problems with BC cams,
You should hear some of the horror stories by Nissan KA & Honda guys......
At least you did not have to grind on the cam to get it to fit, and have not broken one (yet).
 

Kristian_Wraae

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amichie said:
Blackcat looks good.


BTW have a read of this guys ebay ad.
He implies the BC cams have the dizzy gear out of sync. So I guess it has been noted by others also.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TODA...010QQitemZ200186148576QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

My BC CAMS were within specs regarding the journals.

My engine builder measured everything and he found no problems.

They run great but they have not been dialed in yet.

The idle is not that smooth.

I'm going standalone soon so it will hopefully be a ting of the past.
 

BLACKCAT

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The dyno figures were obtained in 2nd gear.
Same dyno & same method to try & keep things consistent otherwise its very hard to compare results.
The hidden stuff only relates to my details & the workshop name.

I have seen cars on this dyno up to 220 km/h (137mph) so dyno speed is not an issue.:biglaugh:

Dynoing in drive (3rd) is not very practicable as it would kickback to second, under heavy load, at anywhere from 50km/h up to around 100km/h.

As far as the idle issue I have been playing with the throttle setting, so that the lever stops around 1 mm before the mechanical stop, this should make it idle at around 750 in drive fully warm & around 950 in neutral. Idles a bit higher when dead cold but only takes a few minutes to warm up.
Any lower than the above setting when fully warm & headlights on, but not AC, & it tends to hunt up & down quite a bit.

Here is a three minute video of it idling from dead cold:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I4utUrmrfc

There is a idle bolt which can be adjusted, clockwise for increasing rpm, on the throttle lever.
 

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amichie

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My idle is now very good with only three bodgie mods.

1. ECU tricked to think AC is always on.
2. Idle speed control valve drilled out from 12.2mm to 12.5 mm.
3. Pull up resisitor on the temp sensor makes the ECU increase the cold start idle up.
 

Kristian_Wraae

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I just found out that the timing had been set to 25 on my engine.

I'm not mechanically skilled so I had someone put the engine in the car after it had been rebuilt by a good mechanic. The only thing the guy had to do was to set the timing. Somehow he managed to set it to 25 instead of 12.

That caused most of the bad idle and made the engine misfire below 2000 rpm.

Now it's running very smooth compared to before.

Since I'm no tech wizz:
Does running the car at 25 instead of 12 cause any problems? It sounds like I have a problem with one of the spark plugs or sparke plug wires? The plugs are brand new iridiums. I would imagine that running 25 would cause detonation and engine knock. Will the knock sensors be able to compensate?
The reason I ask is because I found this thread: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1183

BTW: My engine is the 7MGTE
 
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Ma70.Ent

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Well, I've noticed that the N/A guys either do camshaft regrinds or they buy BC cams like these guys did. Nothing much for brands though, except maybe TODA.
 
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Well, I've noticed that the N/A guys either do camshaft regrinds or they buy BC cams like these guys did. Nothing much for brands though, except maybe TODA.

Oh ok. Gotcha. See I usually look for the popular name brands like hks and greddy and others of those sort. Ive never heard of BC or TODA so this is all new to me
 

Tire Shredder

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Oh ok. Gotcha. See I usually look for the popular name brands like hks and greddy and others of those sort. Ive never heard of BC or TODA so this is all new to me
you need to get out of the brand name rut and think about research. ask for data before you make a decision, not a brand name.
 

cuel

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BC is Brian Crower Cams. They've been in business for quite a while here in the states. They make more than cams, and they've been in the performance game for a long time. Mostly domestic stuff.
 

gofastgeorge

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BC is not the same as Crower.......
BC is Crower's son.
Him & daddy did not get along, so he started his own company recently.
Has had some quality control issues if you dig through the net.
Honda cams breaking, Nissan KA cams that don't fit, etc.
 

cuel

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Really... I thought I was buying Crower cams. I didn't know it was a different company. I'm feeling a little scammed here....

Guess I should have done a little more research, and have a little more to do. Thanks for the info, George.
 

Kristian_Wraae

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gofastgeorge

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All these issues, and those on other web-sites about BC cams is probably what is behind the Real Crower's notice they put on their web-site:

http://crower.com/CB.pdf

Real Crower products are US made, by skilled US workers.
Japanese cams (TODA, JUN, HKS, etc.) are made in Japan, by skilled Japanese workers.

Chinese cams are made by slave labor.........

So what cams do you want to buy ??
 

BLACKCAT

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OK finally got the car dyno tuned.:icon_bigg

7MGTE in a auto MX83 Cressida
BC264 cams
high flow CT26
15psi max boost
10" D @750rpm, 15" N @1060rpm
starts spooling around 2800, 10psi by 3700 & 15 by 4700
Cams set at -1 I & +1 E resulting in 32 degrees overlap.
 

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Kristian_Wraae

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How much has benn done to the block and head in terms of shaving and how thick a head gasket are you using?

Did you try other settings for the cams?

I run E+4 I-1, with a 2 mm HG.
 

BLACKCAT

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Around 30 thou machining total to the block & head, standard Toyota gasket with ARP studs.
With your cam settings you have 26 degrees overlap & would be loosing quite a bit of top end horsepower.
Yes tried a few combinations & basically I loose horsepower in the mid/top end if the intake is advanced beyond +1.
Currently trying I+1 E0 & although idles slightly rougher, due to extra overlap, has a bit more torque through most of the rev range & max boost has actually dropped to 14psi.
 

cuel

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Is everything else stock? Any exhaust or intake work? P&P the head? AFM, injectors, etc.? Just curious what kind of improvement you're getting over stock cams with similar upgrades. Works out to around 285 hp for your dyno.