AR5 Trans Take Two: The Solstice Solution

limequat

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Haven't looked at it.
I have an electric speedo from a Camry that I think I can use, just haven't gotten to it yet.
 
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Interesting, I'm also interested in this swap outcome.
will have to check into the colorado transmission because according to my information the non-extended r154 comes closest to my shift hole.

this thread has talked about just about everything to boot
I'm looking at swapping in a Toyota 1jz/2jz into my 1987 bmw 325 looking at transmission options. lots of people are throwing in ls1 and 5.0 mustang motors into the e30 bmw's as-well as sr20det 1jz/2jz.
 

pantherqs

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Back from the dead.

Looks like I'll be attempting a na-t swap in a sol and I'm doing exactly this. Did this ever get completed or was it just left in the air?

Should be done mid to end of summer, just rounding up a few more things and it'll get torn into.

 

hvyman

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I forget where i last read, but there is complications with the output shaft and shifter location if i remember right.
 

pantherqs

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Christ, this thread relieved all the doubt's I had in the back of my head about going through with the swap. Looks like I won't even have to get a spacer cnc'd.
I couldn't be more grateful. Can't wait to rip into it now.
 

inline6fan

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Wow, 21 pages there's a lot of GM V8 Talk for a Toyota forum...

Power isn't everything, and if you think any V8 sounds better than a boosted inline 6, then go buy a Camaro.

NOW

AR5 and AY6 into JZ engines, can we get a little Cliff's Notes action, or is everyone too concerned with something else?

Shifter and driveshaft are as far as I can tell is the only hangup, and that the JZ bellhousing CAN bolt up.

Insight? And for the love of god stop talking about V8's.
 

NotyMKIV

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I have never posted on here but have PM'd limequat on the "other" supra site regarding this swap. I have then used that information and talked to Aaron at driftmotion about it. He actually set up a complete swap. ex Trans mount, Bellhousing, Driveshaft, and a clutch setup using the same disc that they use in a 500whp/tq application for the r154. the person that this was made for bailed on him and left him with all the parts. If anyone is interested i would give Aaron a quick call, you might be surprised how cost effective the whole setup is.

On another note, you get the new synchro and gear design from the late model chaser R154's which in itself is a huge improvement over the older model R154
 

pantherqs

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Any idea if we have any other possible options other than the S10 clutch? Only sintered iron disk I've found was from spec, but I really don't want to run that pressure plate/clutch again since one of the main load springs on the PP just snapped.
 

limequat

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Any idea if we have any other possible options other than the S10 clutch? Only sintered iron disk I've found was from spec, but I really don't want to run that pressure plate/clutch again since one of the main load springs on the PP just snapped.
See post 10. The camaro V6 clutches are very close. I picked the s10 clutch because I knew it would fit, but these might work also.
 

NotyMKIV

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Any idea if we have any other possible options other than the S10 clutch? Only sintered iron disk I've found was from spec, but I really don't want to run that pressure plate/clutch again since one of the main load springs on the PP just snapped.
Ask Aaron @ driftmotion, last time I asked him he was able to get one of his clutch suppliers to simply swap out the center section for one that was spline'd properly for the ar5 input shaft.
 

candyman

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So I have read this thread but still don't 100% understand what it takes to put an AR5/MA5 in a Supra.

Does a Colorado MA5 line up even remotely close for the shifter? Aside from a custom driveshaft, clutch setup, and mount, etc. what actually goes into it? Can someone give me a quick rundown.
 

JAMDUN17

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Reviving this from the dead, doing this swap now with a Colorado trans from the Z71, might add pics to.this if op doesn't mind so we can get all the AR5/MA5 stuff in one place

Would also like to add that the pilot bearing size needed for this swap is the same size as all M/S50 powered BMWs so E36/E34 x25i x28i M3 and the E34 540I

Click Here for website with the part
 

subeone

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Come on guys lets bring this swap to light for the entire supra community

so far we know this:

we need a pilot bearing from an e34 540i ( i have verified the dimensions and does work)
we need an ar5 transmission
the slave cylinder setup from the ar5 since im assuming it uses a push method instead of a pull method compared to the w58 and v160
we need a custom driveshaft
an s10 clutch has to be used
a 1jz to 2jz bellhousing has to be used for mkiv, 2jz/1jz, etc. owners.
we need to know the dimensions from a ma5 and an ar5 compared to the r154, it seems that the ma5 from a colorado will straight fit into an mkiv supra, Someone verify or post dimensions in terms of shifter location.
a digital speedometer has to be added for you to have an idea on your mph.
i assume the crossmember works fine for an mkiv?

what about the ar5 taco boxes? anyone experiment with that?

lets bring out more info guys come on
 

JAMDUN17

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Well done with the swap with the Colorado AR5.
Cliff notes, Dont Attempt this unless you:
Have Access to a lift
Can weld
Know a Precision Grinding shop
Curse ALOT
Willing to tear apart a transmission.
Have an insane amount of will power
Can access 154 parts

The AR5 from the rado is a royal pain in the ass, more then likely because it was trail and error but unless you can get this trans for cheap its not worth it

5mm needs to be removed from the splined section of the input shaft in order for it not to bottom out.
I reused my mounts, removed the mount carrier from the AR5 bottom. took the mount for the ar5 and drilled it, flipped it and bolted it up. ( i understand that this will make no sense without pics but sorry dont have any for now.)

For a BMW M3 the shifter section of the AR5 had to be cut and a new housing made lower and longer.
My driveshaft also had to be shortened around 2 inches as well.

Will get more in detail soon as i organize and put up the pics, but final conclusion its honestly not worth it. I have access to a shop and parts and just kept pushing on even with all the set back but in hindsight its not worth it at all. There are some upsides; The Trans shift better the the R154 and the ratios are ALOT better imo also its alittle better with gas.
 

miekedmr

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I'm doing the same thing, colorado AR5 to 1jz, and my initial attempt to bolt it up seemed to stop about 5mm short. So it would make sense that's whats happening with mine (splines bottoming out.)

Limequat: I take it the input shaft is longer on the colorado trans than the solstice one? You didn't have to do any modification of the input shaft, correct?

The other issue I'm having is the faceplate of the transmission that the SPEC hydraulic throwout sits against seems to be a few millimeters raised versus where it would be on an r154. To get it to sit flat I need to shim the screws that connect the throwout bearing to the bellhousing a few millimeters.

I'm wondering now if putting a plate between the bellhousing and the transmission might solve both problems. (move the face of the transmission back so that it's level with the mounting surface on the bellhousing, as well as moving the input shaft back enough that the splines don't interfere.)

I'm not sure if bringing the shaft back would make the shaft fall short of the pilot bearing though... One things obvious: I need to do more measuring!

And as for not being worth it (in terms of tangible benefit,) I've never been so deluded as to think my time-and-money pit was really "worth it" ;)
 

limequat

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I'm doing the same thing, colorado AR5 to 1jz, and my initial attempt to bolt it up seemed to stop about 5mm short. So it would make sense that's whats happening with mine (splines bottoming out.)

Limequat: I take it the input shaft is longer on the colorado trans than the solstice one? You didn't have to do any modification of the input shaft, correct?

The other issue I'm having is the faceplate of the transmission that the SPEC hydraulic throwout sits against seems to be a few millimeters raised versus where it would be on an r154. To get it to sit flat I need to shim the screws that connect the throwout bearing to the bellhousing a few millimeters.

I'm wondering now if putting a plate between the bellhousing and the transmission might solve both problems. (move the face of the transmission back so that it's level with the mounting surface on the bellhousing, as well as moving the input shaft back enough that the splines don't interfere.)

I'm not sure if bringing the shaft back would make the shaft fall short of the pilot bearing though... One things obvious: I need to do more measuring!

And as for not being worth it (in terms of tangible benefit,) I've never been so deluded as to think my time-and-money pit was really "worth it" ;)
No modification of the solstice input was required for me. Go figure.
I recommend using the solstice slave cylinder as it bolts up, no modification required.

To me, the biggest hassle/expense was the custom driveshaft. I have some posts in this thread a couple years back. I've since ditched that setup and gone with a solution that uses a stock toyota truck driveshaft. You can mill the output flange on the solstice trans to take a standard toyota pattern. Find the appropriate length and bolt in. Would have saved hundreds off of my swap.
 
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Not sure if I should pollute this excellent R154 / MA5 swap thread with my questions.
limequat, et.al. this is some very nice tech and documentation. There's a little chaff too but the good info is easy to pick out if you've done any homework already. As I've looked into an AX15 and derivatives, I have found this site, Pirate4x4.com and Jeeps-Offroad.com not only planting the MA5 seed but providing almost all the info I've needed to determine that I believe my swap can be done successfully....

I'm looking at a swapping an AX-15 to MA5 to run behind a 4.6l stroked Jeep 4.0l. Not your typical Jeep application as this is for my "Street Comanche" rebuild. After 15+ years in the barn... it's time...

Is protocol to start a new thread or do you all think further MA-5 questions should be presented here?
 

miekedmr

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I made my Colorado transmission + spec clutch combo fit. I'm going to be welding together a solid spacer to replace the washers from 5mm aluminum stock with a TIG. Exactly 5mm of spacing was needed to have the input shaft spin freely in the pilot bearing and the hydraulic throwout sit flat.

d8d5a2533ac464b89cb887325206867e.jpg aa74ce752e586541d3f3027ced84ecb8.jpg 35db176c8530f6959af1ee8310bea987.jpg
 

AlexandreChoquette

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can someone can confirm that the hole of the shifter of ma5 from a colorado direct fit on a mkiv? and if the yoke from a kind of supra can fit in the output shaft of this transmission?

Come on guys lets bring this swap to light for the entire supra community

so far we know this:

we need a pilot bearing from an e34 540i ( i have verified the dimensions and does work)
we need an ar5 transmission
the slave cylinder setup from the ar5 since im assuming it uses a push method instead of a pull method compared to the w58 and v160
we need a custom driveshaft
an s10 clutch has to be used
a 1jz to 2jz bellhousing has to be used for mkiv, 2jz/1jz, etc. owners.
we need to know the dimensions from a ma5 and an ar5 compared to the r154, it seems that the ma5 from a colorado will straight fit into an mkiv supra, Someone verify or post dimensions in terms of shifter location.
a digital speedometer has to be added for you to have an idea on your mph.
i assume the crossmember works fine for an mkiv?

what about the ar5 taco boxes? anyone experiment with that?

lets bring out more info guys come on
 

PontiacPwr

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.....Also, it has the Toyota shift arm attached....
I'm doing a swap of the Solstise Engine And trans into a heavily modified '61 Volvo.
The picture in the original post seems to have the cure for my current problem...
- I need to delete the stock Solstice shifter relocation assembly, it puts the stock shifter back too far...
but the internal trans reverse ball / pivot link is the problem.

I see you solved it with a "Toyota Shift Arm"...

1. can you tell me what year / model(s) I can find this part out of?
2. How far do I need to disassemble the trans to replace the ball link w/ the Toyota Arm?
 

limequat

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I'm doing a swap of the Solstise Engine And trans into a heavily modified '61 Volvo.
The picture in the original post seems to have the cure for my current problem...
- I need to delete the stock Solstice shifter relocation assembly, it puts the stock shifter back too far...
but the internal trans reverse ball / pivot link is the problem.

I see you solved it with a "Toyota Shift Arm"...

1. can you tell me what year / model(s) I can find this part out of?
2. How far do I need to disassemble the trans to replace the ball link w/ the Toyota Arm?
1) Mine came from my stock trans: 1987 Supra Turbo. It should be the same part for any Supra turbo 1987-1992.
2) You'll have to pull of the tail shaft which isn't that big of a job.
 

thedivision

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To me, the biggest hassle/expense was the custom driveshaft. I have some posts in this thread a couple years back. I've since ditched that setup and gone with a solution that uses a stock toyota truck driveshaft. You can mill the output flange on the solstice trans to take a standard toyota pattern. Find the appropriate length and bolt in. Would have saved hundreds off of my swap.
limequat, can you elaborate please? I would much rather go with a Solstice trans over a Colorado, but I'm not up for making a custom driveshaft to suit the Solstice flange. Were you able to get a Toyota slip yoke to work?
 

limequat

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limequat, can you elaborate please? I would much rather go with a Solstice trans over a Colorado, but I'm not up for making a custom driveshaft to suit the Solstice flange. Were you able to get a Toyota slip yoke to work?
Sorry, I don't have pics, as that would make it plain...

But, what I did was use a complete shaft from a late 80s / early nineties Toy truck. It must be a 4WD. 4WD has flanges on both ends and a CV joint or slip joint in the middle.
I then milled the solstice output flange to accept the standard toyota 4wd flange. With this modification, it's a stock/junkyard/$50 driveshaft.

The truck driveshafts came in a variety of lenghts (short cab, extended cab, truck, SUV, etc, etc) but there is one that is the exact right size for a MA5 supra.
 

Hotcakes0007

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Just got my solstice transmission trying to figure out would it be better to use the solstice internal slave or use my old r154 slave? Also have any better pics of the tail end for the driveshaft?
 

thedivision

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Sorry, I don't have pics, as that would make it plain...

But, what I did was use a complete shaft from a late 80s / early nineties Toy truck. It must be a 4WD. 4WD has flanges on both ends and a CV joint or slip joint in the middle.
I then milled the solstice output flange to accept the standard toyota 4wd flange. With this modification, it's a stock/junkyard/$50 driveshaft.

The truck driveshafts came in a variety of lenghts (short cab, extended cab, truck, SUV, etc, etc) but there is one that is the exact right size for a MA5 supra.
That got me thinking... do you think there's an adapter in existence that goes from the Solstice/GM flange to a regular 1310 u-joint end? That could solve a heap of issues.
 

limequat

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Just got my solstice transmission trying to figure out would it be better to use the solstice internal slave or use my old r154 slave? Also have any better pics of the tail end for the driveshaft?
What's your application? If it's a toyota, just use the toyota stuff because it's easier. Also you don't have to pull the trans to fix a slave issue.
 

Hotcakes0007

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I have a is300 with 2jzgte vvti i had a r154 and stupidly sold most of my stuff from the rage lol. I would like to see the back of your trans so i can figure out how im going to do the driveshaft though im sure its in this thread i think i was having trouble understanding what u did after taking off the rear spline from the ar-5.
 

limequat

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I have a is300 with 2jzgte vvti i had a r154 and stupidly sold most of my stuff from the rage lol. I would like to see the back of your trans so i can figure out how im going to do the driveshaft though im sure its in this thread i think i was having trouble understanding what u did after taking off the rear spline from the ar-5.
Lol, too bad!
I've done this swap a few different times in a few different ways. When putting the AR5 behind a 7M, I used the R154 lever, clutch, slave, etc. I had all the parts and all the parts fit together.
But when you don't have all the parts, the internal slave is easier. It's the whole release system in one part. As opposed to sourcing: t o bearing, 1 million different wave springs and washers, slave, lever, pivot ball, etc, etc.
You also might want to consider the type of clutch you want to use. The internal slave can only do a push clutch. If you want a pull clutch, you have to use the R154 stuff.