Another 7M ground up build

Z06gette

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I’m fairly certain my car suffered the BHG last night from a freak heater hose incident. So as the title states I’m preparing to do a ground up build over the next year, goal is to finish it up before next summer.

I have A torn down 87na long block I got from Playaa69. If I’m going to rebuild I want a forged ground up build.

First thing is first I’ll be sending the bare block out to get cleaned tomorrow. Step two will be mounting the rear cover and sending it back for machining and measurements.

Here. We. Go.
 

Z06gette

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Ok called my machine shop we work with at the shop. They quoted me about $700 for a cleaning of the block, deck, and bore. And about 250-275 for a crank refinish fit with bearings.
How does this sound for prices???


Just did a cold compression test, 4 cranks
cyl1-125
CYL 2- 105
CYL 3 -120
CYL 4- 120
CYL 5- 90
CYL 6- 90
 

plaaya69

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The crank finish sounds like a good price but when I had my block done they charged $100 to deck the block, $50 for freeze plugs, $75 to clean the oil passages (including the crankshaft ones), $50 for the oil pump bearings plus $43 in extra parts/labor. This was done at a machine shop that was connected to Bumper to Bumper but it never hurts to get another estimate. I think the most important thing is to see who is working there and the kind of experience they have because I will pay more if someone knows their job better than another place.
 

Z06gette

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Ahh good info, there is a bumper to bumper 2 blocks from my house. Ill give them a call too. The machine shop I called was attached to a carquest in aurora but my boss has been doing business with the machinist there for 20 years. Seemed to know his stuff when I was asking him the questions. Was the Bumper to Bumper you went to in Waukegan?
 

Z06gette

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That was a good recommendation there Plaaya! Called and talked to them, they were very familiar with doing Toyotas and quoted me $400 for a the block being freeze plugs parts and labor, deck, hone and bore, and clean the passages. For the crank they quoted $150 for a resurface and $50 to check the mains. $150 for a 3 angle valve job and $50 resurface the head. Not bad at all and theyre 2 blocks from my house, they will ship it out and deliver back to the store.

I like the sounds of that!

I was looking at JE pistons with Eagles rods and Clevite bearings.
 

plaaya69

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That was a good recommendation there Plaaya! Called and talked to them, they were very familiar with doing Toyotas and quoted me $400 for a the block being freeze plugs parts and labor, deck, hone and bore, and clean the passages. For the crank they quoted $150 for a resurface and $50 to check the mains. $150 for a 3 angle valve job and $50 resurface the head. Not bad at all and theyre 2 blocks from my house, they will ship it out and deliver back to the store.

I like the sounds of that!

I was looking at JE pistons with Eagles rods and Clevite bearings.
Glad to hear you have a Bumper to Bumper local, they did a great job and went the extra mile on my 7m. I could not have been more pleased in how everything turned out and will be going back to them for future Toyota projects...

That piston, rod bearing combo is a great choice.
 

Z06gette

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Does anyone have any knowledge of upgraded Toyota rods? These ones I found are claimed to be upgraded Toyota that have been preened and coated??
 

Enraged

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probably just referring to shotpeened and coated rods. Shotpeening: "Shot peening is a cold working process used to produce a compressive residual stress layer and modify mechanical properties of metals and composites. ... In machining, shot peening is used to strengthen and relieve stress in components like steel automobile crankshafts and connecting rods "

So, an upgrade over stock, but I wouldn't think they won't be as strong as Eagles
 
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debrucer

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Nice having two machine shops to pick between, but I don't hear a question being asked about whether they have the torque plate required.

The lack of this equipment was justification not to use the shop when I built my engine. Has something changed? Technology perhaps?
 

Z06gette

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I have read about the torque plate, this machine shop is huge and the machinist knew about the motor and said he has no problem tackling it. I should follow up and ask specifically before dropping it off there. Plaaya had his work done there and I know his car is done right so with that is encouraging.

Still want to go with Eagle rods, thanks for the clarification Enraged
 

Z06gette

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Are ferrea valves any good? Are the valves worth upgrading? I’m aiming for 600+hp when all is said and done
 

plaaya69

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I have read about the torque plate, this machine shop is huge and the machinist knew about the motor and said he has no problem tackling it. I should follow up and ask specifically before dropping it off there. Plaaya had his work done there and I know his car is done right so with that is encouraging.

Still want to go with Eagle rods, thanks for the clarification Enraged
On the JDM motor I had them work on, I did a very light honing because I actually went with the stock piston size but for oversized pistons I would recommend a torque plate. I also remember hearing to torque the timing belt tensioner down when honing the cylinders so the 1st cylinder has a perfect shape. There was recently a fresh batch of 7m torque plates made on SF and there is some who rent them out of you are looking for one.

On the valves, I have seen both the oem and performance valves on higher hp 7m motors but performance valves is better to have if you go that route for every extra bit of power you can get of the motor.
 

Z06gette

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oh wow yeah I need to get in contact with them. Im not on the other forum so ill sign up and look into that, definitely want it done right
 

Z06gette

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Debrucer, where did you end up getting a torque plate?


Also good thing I have a new oem belt tensioner and belt I opted not to use on my current motor because the one that was on there had about 15k miles on it.

JE pistons were ordered today.
 

Z06gette

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Another question, my block is from an 87na and im doing forged pistons. What should I do about the oil squirters?
 

plaaya69

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Another question, my block is from an 87na and im doing forged pistons. What should I do about the oil squirters?
I made this thread not too long ago:

http://www.supramania.com/forum/threads/oil-squirters-keep-or-delete.248355/#post-2104892

It seems like it has always been a mixed topic with opinions but I have seen 2jz guys cap off those oil squirters ports running over 1k whp and I have seen those that do run with them also. This is for the 2jz but I do remember seeing a internal hex style screw set for the 7mGTE block to cap them off awhile ago:

https://www.powerhouseracing.com/product/5637/phr-oil-squirter-block-off-kit-for-2jz-gte

I personally do like to have them but there has been 7mGE blocks that have converted over to turbo in the past and I do not know of any problems caused by the oil squirters being missing.
 

Z06gette

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Yeah I think I’d rather have them, fresh ones won’t hurt oil pressure. I just didn’t think it was on option on an NA block
 

Z06gette

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The shop was going to be asking some other shops if they have one he can borrow. The guy on Supra forums wants almost $500 for rental with a $375 core. That’s just a lot to shell out for a rental. That’s like half the price of the machine work. I feel like I could have one made for less than that
 

plaaya69

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The shop was going to be asking some other shops if they have one he can borrow. The guy on Supra forums wants almost $500 for rental with a $375 core. That’s just a lot to shell out for a rental. That’s like half the price of the machine work. I feel like I could have one made for less than that
I would check with other members on this thread who bought one. That is more that the price of a new one was to own.

https://www.supraforums.com/threads/7m-torque-plate-interest.1113965/#post-13858931

I remember seeing on ebay a company who made torque plates used to sell 7m ones years ago, maybe they would make a another small batch of them if you contacted some of them.
 

Z06gette

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I put in a couple of calls to some companies that specialize in honing and torque plates, one being CCA in Wisconsin. They charge $375 per torque plate made from 2'' 6061 aluminum and also advertise a rental service on their website.
 
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Z06gette

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I think I've got almost all of my parts for the rebuild or at least everything ill need to send out to the machine shop.
Heres a list of what ive got if you guys could take a look and see if im missing anything
bare block
pistons/ rings
rods
new oil pump
oil pump drive shaft
timing components
timing case (rear lower cover)
timing case hardware
arp main studs/ head stud inserts/ rod hardware
comp valve springs
new heater banjo fitting


I will have the machine shop assemble the short block and source the oil pump and main bearings. I will install the head and transfer over all the accessories from my current motor.
 
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plaaya69

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Looks like a good list. If you are honing out the cylinders it is also good to install the timing belt tensioner and have torque it down to specs so the 1st cylinder is perfectly honed. Did you ever find a torque plate?
 

Z06gette

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So the machinist said he would ask around some more once he actually got my block in. He said as an alternative what he and some other guys he knows have done is make a plate for one cylinder and then does the boring/ honing one cylinder at a time.

I also do have a new timing belt tensioner new in the Toyota bag so that will be going to the machine shop with the timing plate. I also will be doing the Zooloo and insert mod for the head.

Ive been kicking the tires harder on doing E85 too, I know you said you have the Walbro pump... hmmmm lol IVe been trying to make sure I get something for the build every check to keep it progressing.
 

plaaya69

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So the machinist said he would ask around some more once he actually got my block in. He said as an alternative what he and some other guys he knows have done is make a plate for one cylinder and then does the boring/ honing one cylinder at a time.

I also do have a new timing belt tensioner new in the Toyota bag so that will be going to the machine shop with the timing plate. I also will be doing the Zooloo and insert mod for the head.

Ive been kicking the tires harder on doing E85 too, I know you said you have the Walbro pump... hmmmm lol IVe been trying to make sure I get something for the build every check to keep it progressing.
You are doing everything right and a great job so far on researching things, almost makes us here useless ;)

The Walbro fuel pumps, they have a newer 525 model that they run in the Dodge Hellcat which is a great choice to have over the regular 450 but the 450 is still a very capable fuel pump too. If I was doing my build today I would go with the 525 version.

If you do plan on the Zulu mod I would recommend you do that before you take it to the machine shop so you can use any old gasket material for a aid and also when they do the final machining on the cylinder head, they should clean out any left over aluminum in the coolant passages from the new holes made.

On the ARP insert mod, did you already order the inserts? I have to make a for sale thread with some parts I have but I have half a pack that I am going to be selling for $22 shipped if interested (I had to order 2 full 10 packs when I did mine):

 

Z06gette

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Since he's sourcing the oil pump, be sure and explain the shim mod to him and pack it with grease before assembly.
I've got the pump he's just sourcing the shaft thrust bearings, I got a new aisin pump that I will shim. I also was going to see if the machinist could etch the grooves into the pump drive shaft retention plate.

Playaa ill take the inserts lol Thanks for all of the help, my blood is itching to get this thing on the road again. Theres just nothing like driving the Supra
 
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Z06gette

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Thanks! I don't have an aftermarket ecu yet. I was wanting to get it up and running on the stock ecu just so its not another huge variable to change all at once. I've read some horror stories of guys doing a full rebuild and then doing an ecu at the same time and having a nightmare figuring out getting it to start and run. Id rather know everythings good and it'll fire up whenever I turn the key. Then do the ecu and make some serious power. That's my thought process at least
 
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debrucer

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Thanks! I don't have an aftermarket ecu yet. I was wanting to get it up and running on the stock ecu just so its not another huge variable to change all at once. I've read some horror stories of guys doing a full rebuild and then doing an ecu at the same time and having a nightmare figuring out getting it to start and run. Id rather know everythings good and it'll fire up whenever I turn the key. Then do the ecu and make some serious power. That's my thought process at least
That’s my problem. Everything at once is just too much. I’m reverting to stock ECU and stock gauge cluster until I get it back together. Then ECU. Then dash. The trigger wheels and wide-band bung will be finished now, but the Speeduino and electronic dash come later.
 
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Z06gette

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Yeah in my limited experience with my 7m I've had some serious head scratchers, like when I did my rack and pinion. Installed it did the lines and all that fun stuff... Go to burp the steering and wont start just cranks.. Well and that's how I was introduced to the cps wires disintegrating lol Again A and B had nothing to do with each other yet held me up about a week.
 
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Z06gette

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Question: has anyone had a machine shop shot peen or somehow strengthen the oil pump drive pulley? I was reading some threads on the oiling system and came across one of a guy trying to make the pulley stronger by adding a spacer? seemed like a bad idea idk if you can strengthen powered metals?
Like most the mind wonders in an effort to make this thing bullet proof
 

Enraged

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you can have it checked by a machine shop, there is pictures of the wear that can lead to failure. I don't think there is really any way to make the stocker stronger.

What would be great is if someone would sell a replacement that's machined from billet and hard coated.
 
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plaaya69

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Question: has anyone had a machine shop shot peen or somehow strengthen the oil pump drive pulley? I was reading some threads on the oiling system and came across one of a guy trying to make the pulley stronger by adding a spacer? seemed like a bad idea idk if you can strengthen powered metals?
Like most the mind wonders in an effort to make this thing bullet proof
I never really heard of any mods for the oil pump driveshaft other than when people modify the retention plate. The two styles of modifications on that retention plate I seen are with a few added lines for improved oiling:

https://punchoutperformance.com/product/7m-high-performance-oil-pump-driveshaft-retention-plate/

The other retention plate style that is out there uses needle bearings.
 

Z06gette

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Yeah I’m more fond of the notches on the plate. Needle bearings do scare me lol a billet one would be nice. Hmmm I’ll see what I can do