ABS or no ABS...

Zazzn

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So I have a new BBK for my car which will use 15" rcf rotors and huge 6 piston Brembo calipers to give the mk3 a huge modern-day upgrade. The question I'm asking my self, is my new shell doesn't have ABS, the dash and engine are out and it would be the ideal time to put back in ABS. The new breaks will certainly shift the break bais froward a lot more making the rears (which are Brembo lancer calipers) a lot more useless than the current mustang BBK and Lancer rears.

I could always get a break bais kit, but I'm worried that it's been a long time since I haven't had ABS and with the BBK that any panic breaking will take me too long and cause me some real trouble. Also talking to ARZ before he said ABS works really well with his BBK's.


Background on this supra..

Swapped from a 87 targa to a 87na hard top, will have 2jz with upgraded twins on E85 probably around 600WHP. It's set up for responsiveness and for fun with light track times maybe once a year or so at vegas meets and what not but mostly just fun weekend runs and drives where I'm not doing much stupid stuff. I feel though the ABS could save me and the car and maybe worth the hassle of swapping dash harness's, adding the accumulator and the lines/hubs.

Feedback?
 

A70nut

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So I have a new BBK for my car which will use 15" rcf rotors and huge 6 piston Brembo calipers to give the mk3 a huge modern-day upgrade. The question I'm asking my self, is my new shell doesn't have ABS, the dash and engine are out and it would be the ideal time to put back in ABS. The new breaks will certainly shift the break bais froward a lot more making the rears (which are Brembo lancer calipers) a lot more useless than the current mustang BBK and Lancer rears.

I could always get a break bais kit, but I'm worried that it's been a long time since I haven't had ABS and with the BBK that any panic breaking will take me too long and cause me some real trouble. Also talking to ARZ before he said ABS works really well with his BBK's.


Background on this supra..

Swapped from a 87 targa to a 87na hard top, will have 2jz with upgraded twins on E85 probably around 600WHP. It's set up for responsiveness and for fun with light track times maybe once a year or so at vegas meets and what not but mostly just fun weekend runs and drives where I'm not doing much stupid stuff. I feel though the ABS could save me and the car and maybe worth the hassle of swapping dash harness's, adding the accumulator and the lines/hubs.

Feedback?
with the Mercedes brembos on 275 wide 240 treadwear front tires I can activate abs with a decent amount of pedal pressure. I would personally keep it since it's easy to flat spot tires which can be aggravating on expensive tires and it allows everything to work at the optimum max which is much preferred to laying into the pedal and having them slide before you back off the pedal.
 

Piratetip

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Same.
I have the Mercedes front and Evo rear brakes.
The vehicle still can use ABS, I have had it activate quite a bit.
Cornering and steering manuvers while breaking is where it's needed the most.
Keep it.
 

figgie

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The question is which ABS?

The MKIII abs is three channel.

If you want modern, you will need a proper 4 channel system.

Options:

Bosch M4 abs system. Big bucks but is a fully programmable 4 channel abs system.

Otherwise i know most of the racers that want abs and cannot flip the coin for the Bosch M4 go with an ABS unit out of the E36 BMW (I think that is the correct model).
 

Zazzn

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the only thing I would consider adding is an ABS from an aristo since that's what the stock ECU for my 2jz would power. I'm not sure if that's a 3 line system either. Realistically, however, I would be using 87 actuators, and 91 ABS computer potentially.
 

A70nut

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I mean the stock abs system is really effective for what it is. They stopped stock in 120ish feet at 60mph iirc which is really good for only having 225s on all 4 corners stock, with sticky tires and bigger brakes you could easily get down to 100ft or less from 60mph I'd say with the stock abs activating.
 

Piratetip

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I should try and test that...
Sometimes I feel like I'm going to slam my passengers face into the dash if they aren't paying attention.
 

figgie

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the only thing I would consider adding is an ABS from an aristo since that's what the stock ECU for my 2jz would power. I'm not sure if that's a 3 line system either. Realistically, however, I would be using 87 actuators, and 91 ABS computer potentially.
The computer and the actuator are all in one.
Unless you mean tranaplanting the electronic package from one actuator to another.

Also, until the advant of stability control, the abs system was self contained as Canbus was not mature enough to have the abs talk with the stock tccs real time.
 

Zazzn

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Hi Figgie,

Not trying to take the car to that level, too much pain and effort IMO. Just debating to do stock system or like I said a system out of aristo or something similar.

This is strictly for safety, not for racing. I've given up on the fact that the mk3 could be any credible racing car without ALOT of modifications. So many chassis's out there exists that blow it away from stock for a lot less money.
 
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figgie

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Only reason why i mention the bmw abs is the abundance of junked e36. :) should make the price cheaper.
 

shipkiller

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Zazzn, I track my supra twice a year or so, I can compare with my cousin's celica (1uz 85' gts) that has BBK but no ABS and my supra with brembos up front and ABS, it is definitely something I would keep in your situation. The roads here in QC are abysmal and it isn't a rare occurrence to have a wheel lifting slightly while braking because of a huge bump/pothole, even the tracks are like that (Sanair...)

I personally find that the mk3 ABS is plenty good even for a 30years tech for a street car with occasional track days/events.
 

3p141592654

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So your car had ABS, and you removed it? And now you are thinking to put it back in? If that is the case then the stock system makes total sense, it is nearly PNP and works well; saved my butt once when I was not paying attention and had insufficient space to stop and needed to change lanes under full braking. If you are trying to put ABS in a non ABS car then there is a lot of wiring and rework to do. Going aftermarket may not be any worse.
 

Zazzn

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@3p141592654 no, the original shell had ABS, the doner hardtop didn't, I can transpose everything from that shell to this shell. The rewire is a non issue since I took the engine harness out of my original 87 .