6-speed MKIV in a MKIII

NTRA08

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I was wondering if I would be able to put the 6 speed from the mkIV supras into my MKIII. With the 7M. Would I have to do some modifications to the bellhousing to get the shifter to line up right? All comments are welcome. Excfept for the old man. You know who I'm talking about. J/K
 

Bruno Molly

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I wouldn't know for sure but I think I read somewhere where the J series motors in the MK4's have a different bellhousing mounting locations than the M series motor. Anyone? Prolly different Flywheel, Pilot bearing....Anyone?
 

Athena

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Yep, I asked about it. But for my defense, I was asking to swap it to a 2jz mkiii not 7m.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?119590-6-speed-to-MkIII-swap&p=1538011#post1538011

Absalutely the #1 reason why I laugh at all these "ZOMG V160 in mah MkIII yoz!" posts.

If you do some research about the gear ratios in the V160/V161, you'll see that they are only suitable for a really low ratio diff, in the land of 3.2X, as Sawbladz mentioned. Any higher... like say, 3.73, like what is the lowest ratio, commonly available MkIII diff, and you'll swim gears more than you drive. Ontop of that, your top speed will be significantly lower and your highway milage will suffer. Furthermore, you may as well skip 3rd in the V160 because the ratios between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are so close anyway... effectively making it a 5 speed.

Jawsgear made a 3.50 (I think) diff for the MkIII ages ago but as far as I know they aren't available anymore... unless you've REALLY got money.

If you want a 6 speed, a T56 is a MUCH better idea. It's geared very similair to an R154, but with an extra gear after 5th, making the T56 "double overdrive". It's ideal for a 7M which can lug around at 1200rpm without issues. The T56 wieghs about 130lbs and has a few weak spots... if you wanted to do it, get a trans out of a Viper or get a rebuilt unit from one of the many trans shops that rebuilds them.

I don't know what you'd do for a clutch and flywheel on a T56, but you'd be just as SOL with a V16X trans anyway, but atleast you'll have more money to spend making custom stuff because the trans isn't 5 grand. A rebuilt T56 is ~2500-3500 depending on the specs, and a used one is probably a grand. Also, there's adaptor plates kicking around for 7M to GM bellhousings, I'm sure success could be found adapting the two. For a 1JZ series motor with a T56, a 4.10 gear set would probably be a neccessity. The T56 also has a funky clutch arrangement, so you'd have to do some research and figure out how to adapt an existing clutch and flywheel onto a 7M, I'd imagine... probably cheaper than making a 7M flywheel and clutch work on a T56.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: To actually put a T56 in a MkIII would be easy: custom driveshaft, BFH [Big F*cking Hammer] to pound the sh** out of the trans tunnel, a custom bent shifter, custom transmount, and all the adaptors and stuff mentioned previously. Piece of cake really...

The only reason I'd do it is to go over 200MPH and still get good gas milage. But those two concepts next to each other is rediculous anyway.

Conclusion, its not worth it. Go/Stay R154. It's what I'm going with.
 

Nippon-teku

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Go with the 1J o2 2J...the only mod yo have to do to make it fit is cut the shifter houing (the rod). Otherwise the shifter will be in your center counsel...
 

NTRA08

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I was thinking on cutting 7m bellhousing and the 2jz bellhousing and then mating the 7m onto the 2jz tranny.????
 

Keros

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I was thinking on cutting 7m bellhousing and the 2jz bellhousing and then mating the 7m onto the 2jz tranny.????
If you had the tools, knowledge and/or the money, it COULD be done. But with enough money anything could be done.

A small kink in this plan is that the V160/V161 doesn't have a bellhousingin the traditional sense. The bellhousing is part of the forward section of the transmission case, which I'm sure would make your task quite difficult. If someone REALLY wanted to do this, and I mean really wanted to, and was prepared to pay $8000 to go the whole distance, this is what I would think needs to get done:

Make an adapter plate that bolts the V160/1 onto the M bolt pattern, mating the trans directly to the block. Get a kick-ass clutch for a 2JZ and an aftermarket flywheel... but make sure that the flywheel manufacturer doesn't drill the flywheel bolt holes for a 2JZ, they need to do it for a 7M, which is a weird pattern (6 bolts {JZ is 8} with one bolt offset 15 degrees from the regular 60 degree spacing, if I recall correctly). Your adapter plate will have to be a specific width to accomodate the input shaft length on the V161, whatever that happens to be. Should the shaft be unexpectedly short, you're probably hootched because it won't sit properly in the pilot bearing, if at all. Speaking of pilot bearings, you'll probably need a custom one.

This arrangement will let you use a clutch intended for the V160/1 and give you only 1 (and a half) custom parts, the modified flywheel and adapter plate.

Then you have to pound the ever loving shit out of your trans tunnel to make the behemoth of a transmission fit into the MkIII chassis, have fun. The shifter linkage is WAY WAY further back than you'd expect, relative to an R154, so be prepared for some gimmicks to make that work. THEN you're likely to need a pretty retarded driveshaft as that I believe the V160/1 is significantly longer than an R series... so the D/S will be real short, and probably one piece.

But, now we're back to the gear ratio thing... so really, what was the point of going this far? The car will be balls to drive unless you somehow come up with a ton of coin for someone to make you a ring and pinion that will stuff into an 8" MkIII pumpkin that's 3.22ish (I don't even know if this is feasable or possible, but with enough money anything is possible). Or you could fab a MkIV subframe into a MkIII, it's been done twice that I know of and works pretty well... but costs an arm, leg, and a kidney (or if done on the cheap will come apart and you'll die horribly in a fireball). As a bonus, you'll get a BBK on the back end for free!

Or you could do what IJ did and put a custom pumpkin, like a Ford 9", in the MkIII subframe and select your gear ratio as you please.

There's a guy in Edmonton, Alberta that did the V161 swap into a MkIII with a 2JZ. His opinion of the finished product is that it's a novelty and was totally not worth the money he spent doing it
.

He regrets not going T56.​
 

Nippon-teku

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If you want a 6-speed, why don't you go T56 tranny? They have kit already made for the 7MGTE...it would be alot less hassel & a whole lot cheaper. Just putting an option out there....the T56 is a 6-speed GM tranny and can take a beating...thing about it.
 

madsupra88

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If you had the tools, knowledge and/or the money, it COULD be done. But with enough money anything could be done.

A small kink in this plan is that the V160/V161 doesn't have a bellhousingin the traditional sense. The bellhousing is part of the forward section of the transmission case, which I'm sure would make your task quite difficult. If someone REALLY wanted to do this, and I mean really wanted to, and was prepared to pay $8000 to go the whole distance, this is what I would think needs to get done:

Make an adapter plate that bolts the V160/1 onto the M bolt pattern, mating the trans directly to the block. Get a kick-ass clutch for a 2JZ and an aftermarket flywheel... but make sure that the flywheel manufacturer doesn't drill the flywheel bolt holes for a 2JZ, they need to do it for a 7M, which is a weird pattern (6 bolts {JZ is 8} with one bolt offset 15 degrees from the regular 60 degree spacing, if I recall correctly). Your adapter plate will have to be a specific width to accomodate the input shaft length on the V161, whatever that happens to be. Should the shaft be unexpectedly short, you're probably hootched because it won't sit properly in the pilot bearing, if at all. Speaking of pilot bearings, you'll probably need a custom one.

This arrangement will let you use a clutch intended for the V160/1 and give you only 1 (and a half) custom parts, the modified flywheel and adapter plate.

Then you have to pound the ever loving shit out of your trans tunnel to make the behemoth of a transmission fit into the MkIII chassis, have fun. The shifter linkage is WAY WAY further back than you'd expect, relative to an R154, so be prepared for some gimmicks to make that work. THEN you're likely to need a pretty retarded driveshaft as that I believe the V160/1 is significantly longer than an R series... so the D/S will be real short, and probably one piece.

But, now we're back to the gear ratio thing... so really, what was the point of going this far? The car will be balls to drive unless you somehow come up with a ton of coin for someone to make you a ring and pinion that will stuff into an 8" MkIII pumpkin that's 3.22ish (I don't even know if this is feasable or possible, but with enough money anything is possible). Or you could fab a MkIV subframe into a MkIII, it's been done twice that I know of and works pretty well... but costs an arm, leg, and a kidney (or if done on the cheap will come apart and you'll die horribly in a fireball). As a bonus, you'll get a BBK on the back end for free!

Or you could do what IJ did and put a custom pumpkin, like a Ford 9", in the MkIII subframe and select your gear ratio as you please.

There's a guy in Edmonton, Alberta that did the V161 swap into a MkIII with a 2JZ. His opinion of the finished product is that it's a novelty and was totally not worth the money he spent doing it
.

He regrets not going T56.​


If you really think it would cost that much.... your out of your mind,​
 

NTRA08

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If you really think it would cost that much.... your out of your mind,
^^^^ your right there. I never thought of of putting the gm 6-speed in. Does anyone know what the difference in gear ratios are. Better or worse than the r154
 

Nippon-teku

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^^^^ your right there. I never thought of of putting the gm 6-speed in. Does anyone know what the difference in gear ratios are. Better or worse than the r154
It would be a lot better..Not sure what there are but my 1989 Pontiac Trans Am GTA has a 455 V8 with a 6-speed T-56, and its really nasty. I'm very scared to drive that car...that S*@t is raw America muscle. 852Hp to be exact, bult by my uncle & I before he died....trust me its crazy horse power and hard to control. Atleast the my MKiii I can expect and predict the boost, but my TransAm its right there. But to answer your question, you can't go wrong with the T-56. Research it...there are kits out there for the 7M.
 

IJ.

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It would be a lot better..Not sure what there are but my 1989 Pontiac Trans Am GTA has a 455 V8 with a 6-speed T-56, and its really nasty. I'm very scared to drive that car...that S*@t is raw America muscle. 852Hp to be exact, bult by my uncle & I before he died....trust me its crazy horse power and hard to control. Atleast the my MKiii I can expect and predict the boost, but my TransAm its right there. But to answer your question, you can't go wrong with the T-56. Research it...there are kits out there for the 7M.


sound familiar?
 

Nippon-teku

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Hell yea "Ij" That almost happen to me once...that's why i'm scared. I need a wheele bar...but its ok i'll send pic soon...have to go to the storage. Anyway I don't want to mess this guy's thread up, Go with the T-56 man...its awesome.
 

Keros

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If you really think it would cost that much.... your out of your mind,
In all seriousness, yes. A V161 costs anywhere from $3000-5000, depending on who you get it from and what condition it's in. A clutch, single plate, will run you $600 or if you want big power and smooth drivability (because you're going to be shifting ALOT), will be $1800-2500 for a twin disk clutch. You'll regret a heavy-duty pressure plate on a single disk clutch real fast if you don't do something in order to get a less than 3.300:1 rear end. Or you'll have a sprinter's left leg or beg for death in stop and go traffic. Your call...

So basically you've got a transmission and spent almost half the budget to do it on the low side. You still need to do custom machining on a flywheel to make it fit and you need to make an adaptor to get the V161 to mate to the 7M. Remember that the V161 doesn't have a removable bellhousing, so it will likely need to be a bolt-on affair. Go ahead and cut off the front face of the bellhousing and weld something on... but if it fails or doesn't work, the trans is junk. You're committed %100 at that point.

I've no idea how much you'll spend getting that done, maybe $1000 if you don't/can't do it yourself. CNC machining isn't cheap to make an adapter, but I'm sure the flywheel affair will be pretty reasonable. A pilot bearing is $12, I bet. If you're the type that carries a vertical mill around like a leatherman and has a welder in their truck, I'm sure it's a pretty simple peice to make cheaply though. A good fabricator with the right tools could do it easily and not have the trans bake itself or the main bearings blow up because the shafts weren't flawlessly centered when the two were mated together. I'm sure blowing up the trans and/or the engine would not be inline with keeping below an $8000 budget.

Don't forget to make a transmission mount too.

Custom driveshaft is probably $600. So using as conservative numbers as I can, that's $5212 likely spent. Now we take the rule of 1.5, because everything costs %50 more than you expect once you get everything apart and try to accomplish something, especially if few people have ever done it before... and call it $7818. Ask anyone who has done "experimental projects", the rule of 1.5 is science. Stuff doesn't fit, wrong parts, broken parts, shipping costs... the list goes on.

And you STILL haven't dealt with the swimming gears problem. Go ahead and chart speed vs gear ratios with the R154 and the V161, with an 3.737:1 rear end ratio... It would SUCK. You'd tire pretty quickly of that malarky and want to change that. But what do you do? You hacked the bellhousing of the trans, so no one wants it anymore... so all you can do is swap the subframes or live with it.

Woo, fun.

I'm sure someone will cut you a set of ring gears for a 3.22 gear set in a MkIII pumpkin, but you'll WTFBBQ that $8000 budget pretty damn fast doing that...

I've no doubt someone could slap a V160 into a MkIII for way cheaper than my $8000 figure. What I was saying is that if you did, it would be BALLS to drive. I was talking about if someone wanted to make it awesome, it would take $8000 atleast. If you do as I ask and chart the gear/speed relationship, you'll see that you're likely to skip over 3rd and go from 2nd to 4th to save a shift, as that the ratios are so close together. So why even bother?




P.s. It's "you're", as a contraction of "you are", out of my mind.
 
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madsupra88

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In all seriousness, yes. A V161 costs anywhere from $3000-5000, depending on who you get it from and what condition it's in. A clutch, single plate, will run you $600 or if you want big power and smooth drivability (because you're going to be shifting ALOT), will be $1800-2500 for a twin disk clutch. You'll regret a heavy-duty pressure plate on a single disk clutch real fast if you don't do something in order to get a less than 3.300:1 rear end. Or you'll have a sprinter's left leg or beg for death in stop and go traffic. Your call...

So basically you've got a transmission and spent almost half the budget to do it on the low side. You still need to do custom machining on a flywheel to make it fit and you need to make an adaptor to get the V161 to mate to the 7M. Remember that the V161 doesn't have a removable bellhousing, so it will likely need to be a bolt-on affair. Go ahead and cut off the front face of the bellhousing and weld something on... but if it fails or doesn't work, the trans is junk. You're committed %100 at that point.

I've no idea how much you'll spend getting that done, maybe $1000 if you don't/can't do it yourself. CNC machining isn't cheap to make an adapter, but I'm sure the flywheel affair will be pretty reasonable. A pilot bearing is $12, I bet. If you're the type that carries a vertical mill around like a leatherman and has a welder in their truck, I'm sure it's a pretty simple peice to make cheaply though. A good fabricator with the right tools could do it easily and not have the trans bake itself or the main bearings blow up because the shafts weren't flawlessly centered when the two were mated together. I'm sure blowing up the trans and/or the engine would not be inline with keeping below an $8000 budget.

Don't forget to make a transmission mount too.

Custom driveshaft is probably $600. So using as conservative numbers as I can, that's $5212 likely spent. Now we take the rule of 1.5, because everything costs %50 more than you expect once you get everything apart and try to accomplish something, especially if few people have ever done it before... and call it $7818. Ask anyone who has done "experimental projects", the rule of 1.5 is science. Stuff doesn't fit, wrong parts, broken parts, shipping costs... the list goes on.

And you STILL haven't dealt with the swimming gears problem. Go ahead and chart speed vs gear ratios with the R154 and the V161, with an 3.737:1 rear end ratio... It would SUCK. You'd tire pretty quickly of that malarky and want to change that. But what do you do? You hacked the bellhousing of the trans, so no one wants it anymore... so all you can do is swap the subframes or live with it.

Woo, fun.

I'm sure someone will cut you a set of ring gears for a 3.22 gear set in a MkIII pumpkin, but you'll WTFBBQ that $8000 budget pretty damn fast doing that...

I've no doubt someone could slap a V160 into a MkIII for way cheaper than my $8000 figure. What I was saying is that if you did, it would be BALLS to drive. I was talking about if someone wanted to make it awesome, it would take $8000 atleast. If you do as I ask and chart the gear/speed relationship, you'll see that you're likely to skip over 3rd and go from 2nd to 4th to save a shift, as that the ratios are so close together. So why even bother?




P.s. It's "you're", as a contraction of "you are", out of my mind.
You make a valid point BUT..

V161 you can pick them up for $3000 all day if not cheaper.
3/4" adapter plate would run you $300-350 allowing you to keep the bell housing
driveshaft would cost $350 MAX to make
trans mount no more than $150
3/4" flywheel adapter that bolts to 7m and have a stock flywheel on there $100

Then go ahead n choose which ever clutch you want to use.

You just gotta know what to do and who you get your work through thats all im saying.

P.S correcting me on my grammar sure affects working on cars ;)
 

adampecush

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There's a guy in Edmonton, Alberta that did the V161 swap into a MkIII with a 2JZ. His opinion of the finished product is that it's a novelty and was totally not worth the money he spent doing it
.

He regrets not going T56.​



Who was this?​
 

Keros

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Who was this?
A friend of Glenn's. Glenn and I had a conversation about him years ago, however I do not know if the fellow is even still around Edmonton. I think a local shop did the swap for him but apparently the car is a 2JZ-GTE, not a 7M.

You make a valid point BUT..

V161 you can pick them up for $3000 all day if not cheaper.
3/4" adapter plate would run you $300-350 allowing you to keep the bell housing
driveshaft would cost $350 MAX to make
trans mount no more than $150
3/4" flywheel adapter that bolts to 7m and have a stock flywheel on there $100

Then go ahead n choose which ever clutch you want to use.

You just gotta know what to do and who you get your work through thats all im saying.

P.S correcting me on my grammar sure affects working on cars ;)
A guy like you who knows how to get stuff done right and where to get it done at for a fair price, is worth their weight in gold... beer, whatever you like. It's real easy to get taken for a ride getting 'custom stuff' done.