400hp or bust

TheMechanic253

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#1
Hello! I am new to Supra Mania but I frequent other car forums for my other vehicles. I just picked up a 1990 Supra Turbo. I paid $1200 for this car and bought it from a buddy of mine that recently rebuilt the engine, then when he went to start it, blew a head gasket.

I have experience working on engines. I built a 12.5:1 Compression Honda engine in my daily driver, but I'm a grease monkey and couldn't pass up this car for the price.

I will be posting up more pictures as I get under way with my build. I already pulled the engine and disassembled it, I'm awaiting a call back from the machine shop about the conditions of my parts.

The cylinder head is cracked near the coolant jackets on cyl. 2,3,4. I figure Ill end up buying another cylinder head soon.



Well cheers!





 

755hp

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#4
What engine? 400 hp can be made fairly easily.
Really?? Right now I have an Apexi Intake, full 3" DM downpipe and exhaust along with (not yet installed) RX7 550cc injectors and a Lexus afm. I'm on the stock ct26 with a Grimmspeed Mbc set to 10-11psi.

If I install my lex/550s how much Hp could I be around??
 

TheMechanic253

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#6
I've read that the stock fuel pump is capable of 500hp. I will get a walbro, but I've heard people do it. Also I am looking for some Lexus 550cc injectors. Does anyone recommend larger cc's for 400hp?


It is a stock bore 7mgte. The previous owner had the block honed, bought new piston rings, bearings, shimmed oil pump, new water pump, timing belt etc. The machine shop told me that he would certainly run the crank that was in it. It's slightly on the looser side of spec, but it was polished and cleaned recently.

I just bought new ARP Head studs. The dude built it with ARP bolts! :3d_frown:

The guy at the machine shop said he's done work on over 20 7mgte's for some local Toyota speed shop. Buds Machine in Lakewood, WA. He's been around for years. He says you should see the 2J I'm building for a customer!

I havent taken any measurements of the turbo yet, but the hot side A/R. is .63 with a .60 compressor. He bought an ebay t4 turbo manifold to fit the external waste gate and a t3/t4 adapter plate to bolt the turbo to the manifold. Snubby little dump tube. Maybe recirculate? I like quiet exhaust that shit looks crazy.

Well since its a 10 or '89 I won't need emissions testing. Maybe flames under my car will be sweet....

Stock floppy intercooler piping and intercooler, (NEEDS NEW)

Car came with ST suspension sway bars, racing bucket seats, Triple core Megan racing radiator, full silicone hose kit, Large external oil cooler with braided lines, 17" Enkei OR52 wheels.

The entire car was full of parts including 3 pairs of valve covers, 2 alternators, 2 complete intake manifolds, parts up the ying yang. (FS SOON)

I plan on running the car on MAFTPro in speed density mode. The first car I built was a Honda and I understand how to tune LoadxRPM so I would like to stick to it.

I also plan on raising the static compression closer to 9:1 rather than measly 8.4:1 stock. I enjoy the drive ability of my all motor car and I'm shooting for lots of area under the curve. I'm hoping to make 400whp at <16psi.
 

TheMechanic253

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#7


This is my daily. I built a 12.5:1 1.6L SOHC VTEC engine. The power out put was 165whp 125tq on a Dyno Dynamics machine. It makes plenty torque for city driving, and it's tuned slightly lean for freeway, low load cruising. I get 46mpg at about 15.3-15.9 AFR at 65mph.
 
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supraguy@aol

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#8
Looks like a great bargain.
Yeah, 550's should cover you to 400whp max. I have the maft pro and am in the process of tuning it. I used to have the maft basic for 7yrs in blow thru mode and loved it- not a single hiccup.
Thing is- You don't want "Lexus 550's". It's called the Lex/ 550 upgrade, because you use 550cc RC/FIC or Evo injectors, with a Lexus afm. Lexus doesn't even use 550cc injectors in any of their cars.
But since you're going maft pro, you can pic any size injector you want- 550's, 680's, 750's, etc. Because you don't have to match them to a Lexus afm. You just need to change the mainscale on the maft pro with a single click.
I use 680cc Denso injectors myself. And if you find some, I'd recommend them, because then you don't have to splice new plugs onto the engine harness, they're plug&play. Part #1001-87650. Read this short thread about them.
I think I'm the only guy ever to use them in a 7M.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/sh...Cat-injectors-in-a-supra&highlight=arctic+cat
 

TheMechanic253

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#9
Ok Lex gotcha. I have a Lexus 1uz AFM that he was using to run the car. I think I'll buy a larger injector so I can ad boost later if I am not satisfied with 400hp.

Denso makes a lot of sensors and parts for Honda's. I believe my MAP sensor, TPS, and IACV (Idle air control valve) is a Denso.

Also, I'm kind of into "tucking" engine bays and whatnot. I see that they are low impedence and I am looking to get rid of my resistor box.
 

TheMechanic253

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So I got a call from the machine shop today confirming that the cylinder head leaks terribly when pressure tested. Too bad my buddy paid 750 bucks for a machine shop to give him a fucked up cylinder head. Ill post pictures when I get the parts back. How much to 7mgte cylinder heads sell for? I found a bare casting (does include cam caps) for $150.
 

hvyman

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#12
7m heads go for free to a few hundred. depends on condition.

bare as in no valve or anything that sounds expensive as stock valves and springs arent even really worth anything.

and if it didnt come with caps its trash.
 

suprarx7nut

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#13
So I got a call from the machine shop today confirming that the cylinder head leaks terribly when pressure tested. Too bad my buddy paid 750 bucks for a machine shop to give him a fucked up cylinder head. Ill post pictures when I get the parts back. How much to 7mgte cylinder heads sell for? I found a bare casting (does include cam caps) for $150.
If you have all the other hardware to re-use (valves, buckets, shims, etc...) that's not terrible. My machine shop charged $100 for a head they had lying around. It wasn't clean, but it was tested good and I was having them clean and do a valve job anyways.

If you can, have it hardness tested. I haven't found a machine shop that can hardness test in house, but if you can, that would be ideal. If the head has any helicoils, avoid it. Stripped threads are a symptom of a bonehead owner over-torqueing or a soft head. Both are bad.
 

TheMechanic253

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#14
I really appreciate your input. I like that people on this website actually steer you in the right direction rather than trolling. The head that I have is complete, as it was installed on the car ready to run. IF I can swap the parts to a new casting, that would be ideal.

Can't wait to get this thing reassembled.
 

TheMechanic253

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#15
I contacted someone on Craigslist with a Supra for sale asking if he had any spare parts. I drove to Kirkland, WA tonight (about a 45 min drive North) and paid $80 for a core head, intake manifold, throttle bracket, fuel rail and cold start injector.

Hauled that bitch home in my Civic haha.

The exhaust has a few heli coils, but I plan on helicoiling all of the stud holes. It's pretty dirty, but I believe my machine shop should have no problem restoring it to great shape.

The guy I bought it from was really cool! He said if the head is bad I could have my money back. I couldn't believe that he offered that. Wish more people were like that! Most people on Craigslist are scammers, so it was nice to meet a fellow enthusiast that didn't mind helping me out. Hell I even make him some more garage space :)
 

TheMechanic253

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#16


SO there she sits. Fairly clean car for its age. Minor dent on the hood. I think on on the passenger side quarter panel. Wheels and tires are nice but I would prefer quality suspension over these cut springs and front ebay lowering springs.



You can tell that the engine was freshly built while taking it apart. I couldn't believe how much orange RTV I scraped off of the bitch.






Needs tucked real bad.




^^ This is when oil mixes with coolant kids.




Glad he used a name brand clutch. -_-




Any one know how well these flywheels hold up? It's XTD brand but this car did not come with a stock one and this one was installed then never driven on.



Everything looks freshly machine. Rods were re sized and weighed.




Haha I measured the mouth and its 3 inches. The exhaust flange is 2.5 inch. Im thinking about a flare to 3 inch somewhere in there. has anyone used this method to help spool the turbo faster? Im just trying to use the pieces that I already have.




There she is! Just needs to be cleaned. That nasty oil/coolant was just slick enough to save the crank. It still looks smooth as it was polished before the build. My machinist looked at it and said he would run it.



^^^ ENOUGH RTV???????????


More pics soon.
 

Skeezix

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#17
Your 400 hp should easily be achievable. I pulled out 320 at the wheels on a stock tune with only exhaust and intercooler done. Was also hitting fuel cut at like 4500rpm and 3/4 throttle so there is tons of potential there
 

TheMechanic253

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I got these wheels and a bunch of other Acura parts for $75 bucks. They are 17x7 +45. Think I could run them with spacers and extended studs? I think they sort of look like Ferrari wheels!

Called machinist today. Head passed pressure test!
 

Supra28

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#21
I just subscribed to this build. Interested to see how this turns out.

I think the offset is going to look goofy with the RSX wheels haha. But who knows, the spacers might solve that problem. I have some Eibach springs if you're interested btw.
 

TheMechanic253

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#23


Just a little update. I stripped everything out of the car. The carpet was all stinky and molding, same with rear seats. I removed the AC condenser from the dash and put the blower box back in without it. I cleaned the blower motor itself, and all of the vents for the heater system. I found old cigarettes in the vents BLEEHHHH. Well I got the dash re assembled, and the entire floor cleaned with window cleaner to remove the black mold. Smells much better inside, not to mention easier on the eyes :)
 

TheMechanic253

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#25
I pulled the sound deadening out of my civic with dry ice. I'm thinking about leaving it in to, deaden the sound. Maybe in the future I'll pull it out. I guess to reach my 3000lb weight goal it'll need to come out.

What do you use for new sound deadening?
 

IndigoMKII

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#26
I pulled the sound deadening out of my civic with dry ice. I'm thinking about leaving it in to, deaden the sound. Maybe in the future I'll pull it out. I guess to reach my 3000lb weight goal it'll need to come out.

What do you use for new sound deadening?
Replacing the sound deadening with more sound deadening, you won't really get rid of much weight. I suggested it simply because you were already that close plus you could stitch weld the car for more rigidity.
 

TheMechanic253

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#27
Haha ok I see. WELL I don't have a welder at my house. I am looking into buying a small Miller MIG welder. I have used TIG but I don't really have the time to be melting holes in the car when it would have been fine to just leave it alone. This car will be driven on the street. Maybe some day I will stitch weld my R32 Skyline that I'll be purchasing.

I am looking to purchase some Eibach lowering springs from a member on this site and I was looking for those Tokiko illumina stuts, but I can't find them. My girlfriends dad lived in Japan for quiet a while and her mom is from there. Maybe he can help me out... :) New idea.

I still need to fabricate an exhaust when the engine is in. My cousin and I made a "custom" 3" mandrel exhaust for his turbo Civic, so I have a little experience welding. Haha I don't know why I'm even thinking about this gotta assemble the engine first. Should be getting parts back soon. The heads that I brought in have been spliced into one good one.

The first head had a cracked casting around the water jackets on cyl 2 3 4, but the valvetrain was refurbished with new cams. The second head I bought had a good casting, but the cams were bad I guess.


I have a question that I'll ask my machinist, but I wanted to see if anyone on here would chime in. The rods that were in my engine were resized during the last rebuild. I want to put ARP rod bolts in them, do I need to resize the rod ends again when I have the ARP's installed? Or does that depend on the tolerance of the oil clearance?

I put ARP rod bolts in my N/A Civic engine I built. I literally bounce that engine off of 7600 RPM every day for 27k miles and it's still running solid. I'm convinced ARP is the way to go.

I also just received a bag full of ARP Head studs from the kid I bought the car from. Thanks man, way to find them after I already purchased new ones. I plan on using the new ones I bought.
 

TheMechanic253

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#28
SO after a long wait, the machine shop is finally done with my engine parts. My bill came up to $1,287. This includes a complete cylinder head rebuild. I got a valve job, mill, he fixed some exhaust stud threads, and fixed the coolant tube that was broken off. My crank was polished and balanced, ARP rod bolts installed in the rods, with big ends resized and balanced. Block cleaned, (Was already honed and decked.)

He says the block is ready to drop bearings in. I can't wait to get started. Usually when I get a project going like this I dive into it and get it finished quickly. With my civic engine I went from bare block, to in car ready to fire in a few weeks.

I'm excited to get started on a more sophisticated engine.

I need to do more research about head gasket thickness because I'd like to raise static compression and quench to AT LEAST 9:1 with the milling/decking done. I would assume a stock thickness metal head gasket would get me close.


** I also ended up buying those Eibach lowering springs for 125 shipped. Beats the hell out of cut rear springs and ebay lower springs up front.
 

TheMechanic253

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#29
I couldn't believe it! I went to the machine shop with cash to pay my bill. I work in an auto repair shop and my boss has known the machinist since he was my age (20) I asked him if he could take $1100 cash and void the tax, he looks around for a bit and says, "give me $900!"

I had him, clean the block, pressure test 2 heads. swap parts over from one head and completely rebuild the other head. Valve job, check cam tolerances, check and set lash, and helicoil some exhaust stud threads. He also polished and balanced the crank with the flywheel bolted to it. He installed my ARP rod bolts and resized then balanced the rods. The entire rotating assembly was balanced, and its getting ready to be assembled.

So here's a few pictures of my engine right when I got it back.



The block was decked with the timing cover when the last kid built this engine, so I had him check the deck, he said it was perfect. The stains on the deck are just from the last composite head gasket.

I've been cleaning and chasing all the threads on the whole block. The main bearings had a thin milky coating from the coolant/oil that got on them. I used some wd40 and a blue shop towel to wipe it off. It was really easy to wipe off with my hands and a rag.





Head looks really nice :) the picture doesnt show it too well, but the surface is nearly as smooth as glass. The head is being kept in a clean plastic garbage bag in the shop.





The crank looks so nice! I can see myself in the journals.

I was extremely careful and took my time to assemble the last engine I built. Since everything is a much larger scale I am being even more cautious. I have been cleaning all the threads on the main bolts and chasing threads in the block, blowing out the oil gallies with 120psi air nozzle.

I will plastigauge the crank journals this week. I'm sure the tolerances are proper, just a good double check since I have a lot of money on the line.

ALSO I will post some pictures of my other junk cylinder head that was sent out by a machine shop as "Ready to use." It was in my tree house when I took these pictures so I didnt want to go get it hahaha.
 
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TheMechanic253

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Thanks! Well here is the compressor housing. The previous owner had a 90* bend welded to the outlet, but I guess he changed his mind and cut it off? So this is what I've been left to deal with haha.



I realize now I need to take some better pictures of what I was talking about with the blades being bent and all. Im not sure what you can make out from these pictures but looking through my iPod these were the only ones I snapped of the compressor wheel. If you look at the bottom right of the picture you can sort of see what I am talking about





THIS damn bolt is proving to be a sucker to remove. I started by drilling it and using a stud removal tool at work but its not really working to well. Tried adding heat, its still stuck. Will try more on Monday.



There she is!




All the exhaust fins seem to be in good order!



69! Haahahah. Gives you sort of an idea. .60 compressor with 3" inlet, .68 hot side with 2" exhaust flange. Will need to flare to 3" somewhere in the DP.


This is the flange for my WG. Kind of confused why the fuck it doesn't line up with the hole in the manifold. Must be the wrong waste gate for the manifold? I'm not familiar with rectangular waste gate flanges. The valve seats in this hole.



Also as you can see this BRAND NEW never even opened waste gate is all rusted from sitting with coolant in it.







and growing some funky coolant crystals inside the cover.




So I took it completely apart



ICK! That won't do. I know it'll get filled with soot but Im not putting that crusty turd on my engine after the amount of time and money going into this build.



Good thing I have a sand blaster ;) I blew everything out with 120psi of air when I was all done. I made sure not to blast the mating surfaces directly. They got cleaned though from light contact with the glass bead. Everything came out very clean I'm and much more satisfied putting thing on my manifold that what it was.






Been having loads of fun working on this stuff out in the shop. More pictures to come. I have been busy with school/work/girlfriend/family schedule. Things are hectic for sure. On a completely unrelated note, did some brazing at school today! Using the torch is pretty fun. Should have been wearing goggles I know, but the teacher never mentioned it, so ehh It's ok. Hahaha. Much easier than welding for sure. I'm happy with the way my joints turned out ;)

 

ssideways

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#32
yea i had a few small bends like that and had no issues, my turbo builder was actually able to get them out for me the last it was rebuilt. as far as the wastegate flange thats normal for ebay manifolds...the quitaly just isnt there, i try to do my best to blend stuff like that out with porting tools but some cases you can only do so much. best of luck man ill try to keep up.
 

TheMechanic253

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#33
Thanks! I have the ability to open it up a bit. I wish the previous owner didn't build the car off of ebay and actually put some quality parts on it. Oh well can't complain too much for 1200 bucks.

After a long couple of weeks trying to finally get around to working on the engine, I got the block up on the stand yesterday and looked at the deck. To say the least, I'm not too happy with the deck. My machinist said it was fine, good to go. There are lots of weird stains from the head gasket and a few pitted areas. Im taking the block back to the machinist and getting him to deck it with the front timing cover of course.

After all this money I dont want to blow a hg from a shitty deck surface. I reminded myself to be patient and not assemble it the way it is.

I've done some reading, I was unsure, do the pistons sit at deck from factory? The block has already been resurfaced once, but I just want to try and figure out piston to deck/head. I know I can compensate with a head gasket, but pistons out of deck is scary haha.

edit: more reading about piston to deck, some people say from factory, the pistons sit .018-.020 above deck... and this block has been decked. shit.. anyone know good ways to clean the deck without removing material? Ill post pictures of the deck after school
 
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TheMechanic253

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#34
So my machinist looked up the specs for the 7mgte in his holy grail machinist book. He said that from factory, the pistons sit .012"-.020" above deck. This block was already decked .007".

My machinist told me to install the pistons and rods and set it to TDC. Then put a straight edge across the top of the piston and use feeler gauges in-between the straight edge and deck to measure the clearance that the piston sits above deck then ad .035" and that is the minimum head gasket thickness I should run.

I snapped a few crappy pictures of the deck on my block. The previous owner let the engine sit in the car with no cylinder head, but left the HG so you can see it left spots in the shape of the HG. The deck had some surface rust on it when I bought it and just assumed that I could deck the block. There is slight pitting which is my concern. I don't want to deck the block further, and I certainly don't want to have to buy another block.

I just want some advice from fellow members to see what the best route is. I don't want to have to pull the engine out after all this for some shitty reason.

My co-worker told me that he always uses a brass wire wheel to clean the deck on an iron block with brake clean sprayed intermittently to keep the deck cool and clean. He said it does not remove any deck material, only knocks off the loose debris. So I did that and it cleaned up the deck some, but now instead of a stain left from the HG, there are all these weird spots on it.

My dad keeps insisting to assemble the engine. He's like awww it'll be fine! He's a V8 guy, and always has decked any engine he's assembled and never had one fail or blow a HG.

Well here it is.



This is actually pitting. Ever so slight pitting that my little finger nail hardly catches in.^^ Kind of discouraging really







 

Bogwon

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#35
I don't have much experience with rebuilding motors but I can tell you that I'd be leery of using any sort of power tools on the block's mating surface, brass or otherwise. I've heard of taking a razor and trying to hand work the gasket stains that way but again I have not experience with this part of these cars, just watch a lot of youtube videos. Seek more advice I guess is my advice!

Good looking build so far! I'm over in Bremerton myself and I know of a few folks over in the Tacoma/Fed way area with MK3s. Welcome to the Supra family!
 

ssideways

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#38
that is IF you have a plate big enough or access to one and most people don't. on top of that how do you plan on getting in between bores? unless your using an indicator across the top it wont work well. I'd use a good straight edge and a feeler gauge just like the TSRM says to do. more or less the same thing as putting it on a plate but ALOT less hassle.

id also use a razor blade to clean all the bs off then hit it with a lapping plate and some good diamond compound. you dont need to go crazy with the lapping plate just enough to make it look good.


thats what id do but what does a machinist know lol
 

andrew_mx83

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#40
The surface only NEEDS to be good where the gasket seals around the bores and water jackets/oil galleries. Lay the hg over and if you have pitting in those areas then get it decked again, enough to give your desired squish/comp with a 2mm gasket.
If the surface is VERY GOOD (ie no pitting at all) in the sealing areas but lightly pitted in between then then id probably put it together, lap it if you have access to the gear. Personally i just get mine machined to a good enough finish to not require any lapping...

FWIW i have run around 0.028" piston to head clearance a number of times with no issues (in fact more squish is good)