1GZ-FE - My new project motor!

redrocco

QUADCAM
Authorized Seller
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
78
Likes
3
Location
Rochester NY
#1
Well I finally found the engine I have been searching for and it was close to home and fairly cheep as well. The ultimate Toyota engine, the 1GZ-FE. Its the 5.0L quad cam aluminum block VVTI V12 out of a 2007 Toyota Century. It has a forged crank, 6 bolt mains, VVTI, dual timing chains, 48 valves and zero after market support. I want to replace the stock pistons and rods and maby see what I can do about cams. I plan on running it on mega squirt 3 and fitting it with a pair of or SC6265SP SC6265SP or SC6266SP precision turbos. I would like to swap this into a MK3 supra as I have a super charged 1UZ-FE V8 swapped MK3 and have learned a fair amount from that swap about the MA70. I have thought about trying to squeeze it into a RA28 Celica but as they came with a I4 engine space would be a problem. The MK2 supra would be easier to use as its setup for a front sump like the 1GZ has but I have always liked the looks of the MK3 more and the MK2 has some space Issues with the transmissions that I have been looking at. I have thought about just using a R154 since it fits so well in a MK3 and holds up to some good power. How ever I have also been looking into the V160 from the MK4 supra as well as the modified version of the V160 from the Skyline R34 GTR. That would open up the possibility for AWD and a crap load more work, BUT would be total kick ass cool. LOL

I have started the tare down and clean up on the 1GZ. Its amazing how much smaller and lighter this thing is getting as I take off the stuff I don't need. The harness, hydro fan pump, the AC compressor, the two upper intake pieces all the emissions crap is all gone. The lower and two middle intake pieces came off for cleaning and modification. New fuel fails will be fabbed soon and the two middle intake pieces need the stock plenums cut off and new ones welded on. Planning on using two of the 90mm universal throttle bodys off eBay. There only like $85 each and use the OEM Q45 TPS sensors that can be had with plugs for like $30 each. The finished intake will be very similar to the one from the top secret swap. I found the build number on my engine, I have number 2441. With a number that low I would guess that I have a 1997 built engine, as some one online with a 1998 built engine has a number in the mid 3000's. Still trying to figure out how the VVTI on the intake side works as I have never had to deal with VVTI before and have to figure out a way for the mega squirt to control it. I have been taking lots of pictures of how it comes apart as well as part numbers. I will be trying to put together as complete a parts list as I can as well as any other helpful info. I am looking for the flow rate on the stock injectors now, Denso part # 23250-32010 but have had no luck yet. The intake manifolds are made up of 5 parts, center bottom, RH and LH middle and RH and LH upper. The uppers will not be used and the middles will get cut and welded to new plenums. This would be very similar to the intakes from the 1GZ swapped MK4 supra done by Top Secret, not trying to copy there build its just kinda how the intakes fit best.

I have been looking into using Honda B16A rods and pistons and I looks like it should work. It would require grinding 0.127 off the rod journals with possibly a .010 offset grind in towards the crank. I can have the guys at Rochester steel treating re case harden the journals and possibly cryo the whole crank. If the Honda rods are two wide they can be ground down and if they are two narrow I will use the piston guided rod technique to keep the rods from walking. It seams that this kinda thing was done a lot in the old muscle car days before you could buy any part you wanted from the store. Replacing the crap rods in your engine with the "hot" rods from a different engine. Hear are the measurements I have found so far.


1GZ-FE

CON ROD LITTLE END DIAMETER - 21.07MM .8295"
CON ROD BIG END DIAMETER WITHOUT BEARING - 51.20MM 2.0157"
CON ROD LENGTH CENTER TO CENTER - 133.875MM 5.2707"
CRANK BIG END BEARING DIAMETER - 48.0MM 1.8898"
CRANK MAIN BEARING DIAMETER - 66.8MM 2.6299"


Honda B16A, B16A1,

DIMENSIONS
length: 5.290 in.
rod journal: 1.771 in.
housing bore: 1.8900 in.
pin size: 0.826 in.
big end width: 0.9350 in.
pin end width: 0.7850 in.
thickness above pin: 0.200 in.
typical weight: 525g


2012-02-27_11-04-46_897.jpg 2012-02-27_15-03-20_553.jpg 2012-02-27_15-03-55_208.jpg 2012-02-20_23-05-34_262.jpg 2012-02-27_10-24-37_103.jpg
 

Dani87x

OATHKEEPER III%
Authorized Seller
Joined
Oct 11, 2009
Messages
244
Likes
0
Location
Miami FL
#3
HOLY CRAP THAT'S A HUGE MOTOR. :aigo: Looks like it will be a neat swap:naughty:
 

mjsn1

New Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
284
Likes
0
Location
Qatif
#4
That is a lot of work your asking for but i bet that its going to be one hell of a project, a lot of back pain and sweat.
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
38,726
Likes
4
Location
I come from a land down under
#5
"Crambo" here in Aus is squeezing one into a Mk2, another bud has an engine just no plan to put it in a car, before I went LSx in my Mk3 I went and measured it up, with a bit of creative intake work it'll go into a Mk3, Management is going to be "interesting" I guess if it's ran Batch fired Fuel and Ignition that lessens the hardware needed.

Good luck with the project :)
(If I were doing it I'd go blown but that's just me)
 

suprarx7nut

YotaMD.com author
Authorized Seller
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
4,036
Likes
60
Location
Arizona
#8
Very cool build. Can't believe Toyota doesn't offer an aluminum block v12 in any US cars! :(
 

Poodles

I play with fire
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Jul 22, 2006
Messages
16,757
Likes
0
Location
Fort Worth, TX
#9
Hmmm didn't know they were wasted spark. Looks like the engine management is the same as BMW used on their V12? (i.e. 2 ECU's functioning as 2 I6 engines)
 

hvyman

Dang Dude! No Way Man.
Staff member
Super Moderator
Authorized Seller
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
12,744
Likes
27
Location
Orange, CA
#12
Going to be pretty tough getting it in a mk3 being front sump.
 

redrocco

QUADCAM
Authorized Seller
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
78
Likes
3
Location
Rochester NY
#13
The front sump issue is going to be the hardest part. It will probably require a custom built sub frame and maybe a dry sump setup or both. Yes, from the factory Toyota ran the V12 as two straight sixes the same way as BMW did. I will be keeping the stock wasted spark setup for now as it looks nice and should work well. How ever if I have a coil go bad and cant find a replacement then I will convert it to true COP like I did with my 1UZ V8. I will be running the mega squirt 3 with the MS3X expansion board so I will have to pair up the injectors but since the MS3 can control 10 injectors I could use the extra outputs for additional fuel or meth injection. Its actuality a very powerful little system for less than $600 prebuilt.
Info on the MS3.

(Based on full featured MS3+MS3X)
Speed-density, alpha-n or MAF for fuelling calculations
16x16 fuel tables in 0.1% steps with true interpolation and movable rows/columns
16x16 spark tables in 0.1 degree steps with true interpolation and movable rows/columns
Wall-wetting transient fuel control for better driveability
On board datalogging to SDcard (max 333Hz sample rate)
Tuning by serial or built-in USB-serial port.
8 channels sequential fuel (hi-z injectors or low-z with external resistors)
2 additional fuel channels (hi-z or low-z)
8 channels sequential spark (logic level output)
6 channels mid current output for small solenoids or relays
2 'spare' conditioned 0-5V analogue inputs (+2 more raw)
Two wideband oxygen sensor input (external controller required)
(Up to eight widebands supported via external data capture)
GM-style stepper idle control
2 and 3 wire PWM idle control
Closed loop idle control
Closed loop mixture control - ideally with wideband
Closed loop boost control
Various boost control systems (gear, time, speed based)
Two stage variable nitrous control
2 step type launch control
CAN communications to interconnect other Megasquirt products e.g. transmission controller
Supports external data capture boards (e.g. for external EGT boards)
EGT data support (with external amplifier)
Staged injection
Dual fuel (e.g. LPG)
Table switching, (mainly for dual fuel use)
Water/Meth injection
Individual cylinder injector trim
Injector phase timing
Individual cylinder spark trim
Support for numerous OEM trigger wheel patterns.
2 Magnetic (VR), Hall, Opto crank sensor inputs
 

te72

Classifieds Moderator
Staff member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
6,614
Likes
5
Location
WHYoming
#14
Cool man, I'd like to see what you come up with here, I'll keep an eye on this thread. :)

For what it's worth, wouldn't getting a custom oil pan be an easier route than a custom subframe? How long is the engine, in relation to a 7m or JZ that would normally be found in a Mk3? Reason I ask, cooling could cause issues if this engine is much longer than Toyota's I6's...
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
38,726
Likes
4
Location
I come from a land down under
#15
We were discussing this engine at the weekend, seemingly the Oil pump hangs under the engine inside the pan at the front so this "might" be an issue in a Mk3?
 

redrocco

QUADCAM
Authorized Seller
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
78
Likes
3
Location
Rochester NY
#17
Dry sump is looking like the way to go. I have been playing with all sorts of ideas as far as moveing the rack or swapping subframes or building some kind of hydraulic or servomotor driven stearing and nothing yet has been without two meny down sides. Where as drysumping the 1GZ looks to be fairly straight forward and not to bad a project. The oil pump is chain driven and bolted to the bottom of the block so removeing it should be no problem. I have a basic understanding of how dry sump systems work so some reading and reaserch is going to be required. The stock upper oil pan is aluminum so machineing and welding are simple enough. I will have to take some more measurements to see how much shorter the pan must be made. I also need to figure out how meny high pressure stages I will need on the pump.
 

redrocco

QUADCAM
Authorized Seller
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
78
Likes
3
Location
Rochester NY
#18
The 1GZ at the oil pan is almost the same exact length as the 2JZ. I do not have a 1JZ, 2JZ or 7M to measure so that's the best I can do. The 1GZ is 29" from the back of the block to the front of the crank pulley, the 1uz in my current supra is about 25.5" from the back of the block to the front of the crank pulley. I have 6.75" of space between the crank pulley on the 1UZ and the radiator so I should be good there. The 1GZ is also 6" narrower then the 1UZ and much cleaner on the back of the engine so there should be no problems with the drivers side head hitting the break booster like with the 1UZ. As far as the oil pan I think that the stock pan could be shortened from 6" at its lowest point (bottom of the sump) to between 1.5" and 2" and would still collect the oil to the front where the sump used to be. If need be a totally new pan could be made or heavy modification to the stock pan could be done to reduce the front to 1" to 1.5" and have the oil flow towards the rear. It seams that the output from the oil pump goes up into the bottom of the block then out the side of the block to the oil filter holder. That very well could be a easy place to attach AN lines from the dry sump pump for oil pickup and oil feed to the engine. I think I could get by with a 3 stage pump, 2 for return and one for feed. There are always a dozen or so on eBay in the $100 to $250 price range that would probably just need a light rebuild and a clean up. I could probably put a system together for between $500 and $1000 depending on what deals I can find.

Hear are some helpful pics I found online of the oil pump, bottom of the block and 2JZ vs. 1GZ oil pans.

IMG_0724.jpg Supra 2J, V12, Aristo 2J pans labled.JPG Image0101.jpg IMG_0719.jpg IMG_0723.jpg
 

te72

Classifieds Moderator
Staff member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
6,614
Likes
5
Location
WHYoming
#20
We were discussing this engine at the weekend, seemingly the Oil pump hangs under the engine inside the pan at the front so this "might" be an issue in a Mk3?
Could go drysump...
This would be the route I would be going for something like this. Any idea what this engine weighs? I figure it's all alloy, correct? Shouldn't be much heavier (if any at all) than the JZ's... Seems like you're willing to put the money in to make this work, which is good, it's gonna take a bit. ;)
 

redrocco

QUADCAM
Authorized Seller
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
78
Likes
3
Location
Rochester NY
#21
As far as weight I had read some place online that the 1GZ is very close in weight to a 2jz-gte but untill I can get mine on a scale I don't have a true number. However after removeing all the parts that I do not need I would guess I will see at least a 30% reduction. As far as money goes I am trying to do this for as little as posable but I will NOT cut corners. I do my own fabrication which saves me lots of money and I will also try to sell all my uneeded parts to get back some of the cost of the engine. I will also be offering copys of parts I make for sale to people on this fourm as well as lextreme. For instance the billet 4140 tilton triple plate flywheel I am makeing for this swap will also work on a 1UZ as the crank snouts are the same. If I make 2 flywheels for myself and 4 or 5 extra and sell them for $150 - $200 the extra flywheels will pay for the rest of my clutch and not cost me anything out of pocket. Not trying to get rich just don't want to go broke. ; )
 

te72

Classifieds Moderator
Staff member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
6,614
Likes
5
Location
WHYoming
#22
Stuffing a v12 into a Mk3 Supra, and you don't want to go broke? :rofl:

Good luck with that sir. :)
 

destrux

Active Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
1,188
Likes
6
Location
PA
#25
I'd love to hear one of these built up in NA form. 15:1 CR (run E85), custom cams (maybe JZ cams could fit?), head work, ITBs, and some well designed tubular manifolds. I'd bet 450whp could be attainable pretty easily, if not 500whp. I'm not sure what the stock rev limit is, or what the limiting factor there would be (rods, valvetrain, or what), but an 8000 rpm rev limit would sound sweet. Doing custom rods/pistons would mean you could play with improving the rod ratio too.

Oh the ideas.... I love projects like this, good luck.
 

supranz

New Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
55
Likes
0
Location
Christchurch
#27
Subscribed for sure. I'm looking to go down this path too so I wait for your solution to issues with bated breath. Best of luck!
 

redrocco

QUADCAM
Authorized Seller
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
78
Likes
3
Location
Rochester NY
#28
I have been working on getting the engine cleaned up over the last week or two and its starting to look nice. I have also found a very nice 89 MK3 shell about 5 hours away from me that I will be picking up on 3/24. After talking with some other 1GZ owners and reading posts on lextreme the 1GZ rods seam to be 10% to 15% beefier then the week 1uz rods. The week 1uz rods are good to 50HP each reliably so the 1GZ rods should be good for 50-60 HP each so 600HP to 720HP should be fine on the stock rods as there are 12 of them.

2012-03-18_01-27-28_570.jpg 2012-03-18_01-27-49_101.jpg 2012-03-18_01-28-04_708.jpg 2012-03-18_01-28-17_679.jpg
 

89niner

New Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
120
Likes
0
Location
warshingtonia
#30
you sir, are a genius :) i just want to hear what it sounds like. very cool project btw, v12 vvt-i and boost = pure bliss. adding nitrous for further excitement?
 

supranz

New Member
Authorized Seller
Joined
May 23, 2010
Messages
55
Likes
0
Location
Christchurch
#31
Bit of an odd question, but did you get the accessories with the motor? I see you have the powersteer pump, but what alternator and A/C pump are you going to run? 7m ones with custom brackets?
 

redrocco

QUADCAM
Authorized Seller
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
78
Likes
3
Location
Rochester NY
#32
The engine came with all the accessories but I will only be using the alt and the PS pump. I will not need the ac pump or the hydro fan pump. I will how ever need to add a dry sump pump. I am also considering swapping out the belt driven water pump for a remote external electric unit as the water pump and thermostat housing are quite tall and mounted on the very front of the engine were there is the least amount of hood clearance. I will know more once the engine gets test fit and I see how much clearance there is.
 
Likes: debrucer

te72

Classifieds Moderator
Staff member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
6,614
Likes
5
Location
WHYoming
#34
One question - how the hell did you source it, and how much did it set you back?!
x2. In all my searching/shopping, I've never seen a Toyota engine bigger than a 6 cylinder...
 

te72

Classifieds Moderator
Staff member
Authorized Seller
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
6,614
Likes
5
Location
WHYoming
#38
The 2uz-fe is quite common.
Frain bart... completely forgot the volume engines used in pretty much every luxury car Toyota built for 15 years... 1uz just as common too. However, they only used this engine in one car.

Well this is just two 1JZs :D
Displacement wise, but I don't think it really shares much of anything else... I believe the OP posted the bore/stroke details earlier.
 

redrocco

QUADCAM
Authorized Seller
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
78
Likes
3
Location
Rochester NY
#39
Toyota has been making V8's since 1963 and also has made a V10 and V12. I had been looking for and researching the 1GZ for the last few years. After I finished my 1UZ swap I started looking into getting the V12. Took me over two years to find one for a good price. I eventually got lucky and found some one with one for sale 3 hours from my house for $3200. It has the same 6 bolt main setup as the 1uz, 4 bolts up from the bottom and 1 through each side. Lots of the design for the 1GZ V12 came from the 1UZ, they can even use the same flywheel. The 1UZ can be had for $600 or less and makes for a good engine and also good practice for the V12.



V8
1963 - V - OHV
1963-1967 - 2.6 L (2599 cc) V
1967-1973 - 3.0 L (2981 cc) 3V
1973-1983 - 3.4 L (3376 cc) 4V
1983-1998 - 4.0 L (3995 cc) 5V
1989 - UZ - DOHC
1989-2002 - 4.0 L (3969 cc) 1UZ
1998-2009 - 4.7 L (4663 cc) 2UZ
2000-2010 - 4.3 L (4300 cc) 3UZ
2006 - UR - DOHC
2006 - 4.6 L (4608 cc) 1UR
2007 - 5.0 L (4969 cc) 2UR
2007 - 5.7 L (5663 cc) 3UR

V10

2010 - LR - DOHC/VVT-i
2010 - 4.8 L (4805 cc) 1LR-GUE

V12
1997 - 5.0 L (4996 cc) 1GZ-FE
 
Likes: debrucer

Dylan JZ

一番 King
Authorized Seller
Contributor
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
2,222
Likes
2
Location
湾岸せん
#40
It's more like a neo aluminum block vvti 1J, per cylinder bank.. but it really shares zero in common as far as what I can tell.

Toyota needs to follow BMWs way and make a sleeved aluminum block 3.5L, turbo I6 (3JZ).