EGR block offs and emissions

[silversup]

Is there anyone out there who is using egr block offs and still passed emissions with the sniffer?

 

[supra90turbo]

i was going to tune for the car to run lean, so i could pass...
instead i just bought some corona's.

 

[lagged]

car completely stock save for lacking an EGR, car passes with flying colors.

 

[silversup]

Does you engine run rough on a cold startup? Do you think with a cat back free flow cat sp61gt and any other go fast part it could still pass?

 

[lagged]

sure why not. if you are on the stock fuel system, and have a cat, with a good running motor you should pass with no problems.

when you start messing with the fuel system however, you are gonna have to play with it to get it to pass.

 

[SupraJack]

We havn't had anyone tell us the had problems with emissions because of egr bolck off plates
Jack
SupraSport

 

[GrimJack]

I've run into that problem here - or some of the local members have, anyhow. I still have my EGR.

 

[mrnickleye]

We havn't had anyone tell us the had problems with emissions because of egr bolck off plates
Jack
SupraSport

Well friends, about 1/2 the smog test is a "visual" to make sure all the components are correct and in place, and the hoses routed properly. (How does this guy know, you ask?) Because I've done smogs testing for years here in sunny Calif.
Yes, your car (MKIII) will pass the test with the EGR blocked off, and a good cat converter. You may have to retard the timing down to zero first. (then put it back up to spec after the test).
P.S. You did not hear this from me.

(A missing EGR will be spotted.)

The fine for passing a car illegally can be up to $10,000, and the shop will be put on a probation period. That's why its harder to find someone to 'get you thru'.
We look 'every' vehicle over very closely, because the state sends out the most 'ordinary' looking folks in their 'sting' operations. A previous smog tech passed one illegally (he didn't even know the guy, no $$ under the table) and it was a sting. It cost the owner $5000, and his 'Gold Shield' (state certified 'gross polluter' repair shop license).

Here's a bit more inside info.....most test shops don't give you a free re-test if you fail. (They usually charge 50% of original fee for re-test).

Also, the state is going around telling them that they are not failing enough cars, that they need to fail more cars. That's because the U.S EPA is withholding $$ from the states based on smog testing failures. I have seen shops fined for having a low failure rate.

The failed cars still pay foor the test. They must get fixed, then re-tested.
The repair must be done by a certified 'smog repair shop' (if you're paying $)

This whole process generates a lot of $$$ for the economy, which also generates a lot of tax $$$ for the states.

A BIG way to help you pass the 'tail pipe' portion of the test is to make sure your car engine is HOT. Drive the car for 30 minutes before you go to the shop. That cat converter MUST be very hot to do its job.

I know of several 'test only' shops that wait till the car is cooled off before running the test. The car usually fails the 15mph part, but will pass the 25mph part.
Any more ??? on smog, just post it so I'll recognize a smog ???, and I'll try to help.

 

[sathu]

What is the benefit of getting rid of the EGR?

The 30 mins warm up for the cat is true. The shop that I got my car smog at will ask you if have have been driven it for a long time before getting to the shop for testing. I had my car on the freeway at 70 mph for a while and take the inside road to the shop and it warmed up. I almost failed at 15mph on the HC part mainly b/c my turbo has a blown oil seal and puff out load of smoke at the pipe for half a min.. It was scary looking at all the smokes at the pipe while it was on the dyno...

 

[SupraJack]

I am so glad the shut down the test sites hear in MN, Our guys never even opened the hoods just stuck a mirror under for the cat and put the wand in the tailpipe.
Jack

 

[jetjock]

mrnickleye, my BAR cert has been expired for a few years but we were required to do more than a visual regarding EGR. We had to test by pulling a vacuum on the modulator.

Also, the last I knew the first retest in CA is free by law if done at the same station. If the station charges for a retest they are breaking it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Gary

 

[thesupraman]

You may have to retard the timing down to zero first. (then put it back up to spec after the test).
P.S. You did not hear this from me.

I would think that if you did this you would fail for hydrocarbons for sure. If you retard the timing too far the mixture dosen't have enough time burn completely. I passed NJ emissions no problem with the EGR blocked off. Of course if they knew that it was missing, they would have failed me :icon_bigg

 

[sathu]

So what would cause a high HC when tested? I passed my 15mph with 1 point of HC before it failed. Would that just be because it was burning too much oil in the engine?

 

[mrnickleye]

So what would cause a high HC when tested? I passed my 15mph with 1 point of HC before it failed. Would that just be because it was burning too much oil in the engine?

Burning oil does not raise the HCs (hydo carbons) Un-burn't fuel. A slight miss fire, running too rich, timing set too advanced, cat converter low efficiency or not fully hot before the test.

Here's my #s for my 89 N/A, after a valve job, running excellent, timing at 10*, new cat converter, EGR working perfectly (I cleaned every thing when the head was off), AFM spring lightened 3 notches.

I tested it at my shop 'right before' going to the required 'test only' shop. It tested 'great' and very clean.

15mph...HC max ppm = 106, me = 56.....CO% max 0.70, me = 0.10...
NO max ppm = 762, me = 232

25mph...HC max ppm = 81, me = 30....CO% max 0.57, me = 0.00....
NO max ppm = 701, me = 147

The anal orfice at the 'test only' center let it sit for an hour before he ran the test, and this is what it showed, (25 mph was only a couple #s off from my test)

15 mph on the dyno
HC: Max allowed 106 ppm, me=106....CO%: max 0.70, me 0.14.....
NO: max 762, me=710

1 more # on HC and it would have failed. 53 more on NO and it would have failed. This is why the car MUST be hot when tested.
If you see a BIG difference in your #s from 15mph and 25mph, the car wasn't hot enough to start with.

A "legal" trick to get the 'best possible #s for you to pass: tell them to run the car in 1st gear for the 15mph, and 2nd gear for the 25mph.
This raises the RPMs and heats the cat up more too.

Also, law changed to allow shops to charge market bearance (any price they want) and to charge for re-test. Its about $50K for smog test equipment.

 

[mrnickleye]

Quote: What is the benefit of getting rid of the EGR?

I can't think of any performance benefits for street driving. The EGR function is to lower combustion temps to lower NO, which will also help keep your engine running cooler. My engine seems to run a tad cooler, now that the EGR is functioning again.

Many folks want to 'clean up' the engine bay, and there certainly is a bunch of stuff to the EGR system that, when gone, helps it look nicer in there.

 

[mrnickleye]

What is the benefit of getting rid of the EGR?

The 30 mins warm up for the cat is true. The shop that I got my car smog at will ask you if have have been driven it for a long time before getting to the shop for testing. I had my car on the freeway at 70 mph for a while and take the inside road to the shop and it warmed up. I almost failed at 15mph on the HC part mainly b/c my turbo has a blown oil seal and puff out load of smoke at the pipe for half a min.. It was scary looking at all the smokes at the pipe while it was on the dyno...

Forgot this, oil smoking cars will eventually ruin their cat converters because the oil coats the "active ingredients" :biglaugh: inside the cat.