having a hard time removing the front main oil seal

[shrekz]

i have taken off the timing covers, belt, etc.. i was able to remove the oil drive gasket with ease, but this front oil seal isn't coming out, i tried using a screw into the gasket and pulling it with a pair of pliers, but the screw just makes the hole bigger and the gasket doesnt budge. i can see that there is the toyota fipg around the oil seal and i was wondering how i can get this seal out? it just wont budge, the manual has 2 options for removing this, either witha special tool or remove the timing case... how hard is it to remove the timing case.. can it be done wtih the engine on the car? also any help would be appreciated, is there anything that i could put around the seal so as to "deteriorate" the seal? such as a gasket remover or something similar? as i am assuming the toyota fipg is the culprit for this being so damn hard to remove.

 

[rakkasan]

FIPG around the front mail seal? I could be wrong, but I don't think there should be any FIPG aroungd the FMS.

 

[shrekz]

it sure looks liek it is there, there could be a slight chance that i had mistaken it for a sludge of oil, but its wierd, the metal in the FMS moves around but the outer edge is sealed on solid. i tried using a screwdriver, pulling it, nothing seems to work, but the last option that i am thinking of right now is trying to "burn" out the seal using some chemicals.. any suggestions?

 

[sathu]

It doesn't take that long or hard to remove those two seals. I did mine a while back and it took me half a min for the first one and two min for the second b/c it was stuck in there more . Basically you take something that is bendable but is also stiff enough that it won't bend back straigh when you pull on it. The best thing I can think of is the tool they use for picking lock, those are nice for pulling these seals out. I used a 10 gawge steel wire when I did mine . Basically bend it at 90 degree angle with the short end of about 1/4" and poke it through the seal from the bottom. The small end go in with the longer end pointing either straight up the sky and to the side or where ever you decide to poke into the seal. Pull the longer end down toward the center of the camshaft. If you poke it in long enough it will grab onto the metal wire inside the seal and just pull it out slowly. You might need to pull at a couple of more spots around the seal to get it out.

I pull on one spot for my first one and 3 different spot for my second one before it started to come out.

 

[shrekz]

thank you for the detailed procedure sathu, my seal that is giving me trouble is the crankshaft seal, but i think it would work the same way!! i will try this today hopefully the seal will pop out

 

[GrimJack]

You can buy a seal pick from a tool store - looks like a dental pick except much bigger. It will tear that seal out in no time.

 

[wh0wants2know]

those minie-screwdrivers that they sell for eyeglasses and electronics and stuff work well also, just make sure that you grind them down a bit so they aren't sharp and don't scrape anything bad.

 

[Supraholic]

You can buy a seal pick from a tool store - looks like a dental pick except much bigger. It will tear that seal out in no time.

seal pick from autozone is ~$7.. it work like a champ.. why mess with the crank with something else and cause damage that can escalate to several thousands of $$$ ?

 

[shrekz]

thanks so much for the input guys, finally after two days i got it out. there wasnt any fipg or anything it was just stuck. anyway i did try the seal pick but no luck, so i ended up shoving a flathead screwdriver between the block and the seal pointing toward the center so as to not scratch the surface and hit it with a hammer a couple of times[had someone hold the screw driver while i hit it with a hammer] and it got lodged in the seal pretty good and i just gave it a few gentle prys and i saw it pop in and out, so i just drilled a small hole into the metal of the gasket and put in a screw then pulled with some pliers, came out really easy.

but now i have a question, i guess from all the trying before there might be a couple scratches.. is this bad? not on the the timing case flange, but it looks more like on the crankshaft [theres an outer circle-silver in color, then an inner circle-gold in color] theres a scratch not too small but a decent sized one on the edge of that inner golden circle, i mean i dont know what i can do to fix that but what would be a good precaution to take..do i even have to worry about it?

also to install the seal i was thinking just using pcv pipe the size of the seal and banging it in with a mallet.. are we supposed to lube the outside edge of the seal?

 

[sathu]

I put some clean oil on the seal and shove it back in and give it firm pressure. I didn't bang it with a mallet as that wouldn't really do much since it's already in all the way and didn't seem to stick out or anything.

 

[wh0wants2know]

yes, lube the seal with some oil. A piece of PVC that's the same size will work fine to install the thing, but I've found that I can usually just push it in there with the same screwdriver and after a bit of maneuvering it's just fine. I told you, a flathead screwdriver is the best seal/gasket remover in the world.

 

[shrekz]

i had some arp lube left over so i just used that around the seal, and banged in the seal with a pvc pipe and it seemed to look good, so i put everything back together and hopefully fill up the engine with oil and water and set the timing. hopefully it wont leak.

 

[mk3forme]

Hey guys. need some help with this threads topic. So chose not to open a new one. My seal is replaced and im in the process of trying to reinstall the crank timing belt pulley. Question is this. Isnt this pulley suppose to sit flush against the block? I have got it as far back as it seems to want to go but there is still about a 1/4 inch gap in between the back of the pulley and the block. You can still see the polish lip of the pulley in between the block and the back of the pulley. It doesnt seem like its in all the way. Does anyone remember from their previous experience if this is right or not and if not does anyone have any ideas on how to get it back farther. thanks for any help!

 

[GrimJack]

Better wait for someone else to chime in as well, but I seem to recall the same thing from mine.

 

[mk3forme]

okk Grim so are you saying that its normal to not be flush against the block or not normal? Thanks

 

[IJ.]

I hope the thread starter only lubed the rubber lip of the seal......

I clean the case spotless then smear a thin coat of Permatex #3 on the outside of the seal, then a smear of moly lube on the rubber lip as it relies on it's sharp edge to function much like a Windscreen wiper (hence it's called a wiper seal)

Doing it this way you can just about push the seal all the way in with your fingers as the Permatex acts as a lube but once it's set the seal wont come out with crankcase pressure.

<edit> Also to remove it with the Timing case off the motor just turn the case over there's a cutout in the bottom of the hole take a 4>5mm pin punch support the cover and punch out with a hammer.

 

[mk3forme]

IJ any tips on how to get the crankshaft timing pulley in all the way? Or is it suppose to sit flush against the timing case cover? Mine has like a 3/16 to 1/4 inch gap in between the cover and back of the pulley.

 

[IJ.]

Grim's correct there will be a few mm of the polished seal surface visible.

The pully goes hard up against the front of the crank so take a piece of alumnium or wood, put it against the front of the pully and give it a tap with a hammer to make sure it's seated.(make sure you aren't hitting the lip on the pully)

When you put the Balancer back on it's bolt is done up to 197 ft/lbs and will press the pully home hard so don't be too concerned.

 

[mk3forme]

As IJ and grim both stated, there is a 3/16 to 1/4 inch of polished surface visible and thanks for the info guys. I figured that out after I pulled it back out not satisifed on how it looked installed and took some measurements. I also trashed a brand new seal in the process removing it as well. Thats sucks!! Anyway it is done and seems to have stopped my rather large leak that I had. I also took IJ's advice on the gasket sealer on the outer rim of the seal as it made perfect sense when I read it. I believe, that was one of my leak problems is that my seal looked like it had popped out of its place when i was removing the crank timing belt pulley. I have read other threads of leaks developing after hooking up catch cans and mine started after I temporarily routed both my cam cover hoses into my intake instead of 1 to intake and 1 to turbo accordian hose like stock. Im thinking the pressure built up and popped my seal out and hence the leak developed. Thanks again guys for the help!!