OIL: Pennzoil vs Amsoil NON-synthetic

[siman]

Ok guys,

I have been running the standard non synthetic Pen. 20w-50 for 8K miles ( since the rebuild essentially).

I have discovered after about 2000 miles of driving, the viscosity of the non synthetic Pennzoil breaks down and my oil pressure drops about 15lbs ( to the stock oil pressure gauge ).

I am thinking of ordering a slew of 20-50 NON synthetic Amsoil.....And was wondering ( to my knowledge) if it has some additives to aid in the viscosity of the oil lasting longer than the normal 20-50 from Pennzoil I am using right now.


I am at the point of no return, as in switching to SYNTHETIC, i am not going to do that....I dont trust it LOL....i have seen with my own bare eyes what switching can do.....to turbo seals and internal seals...the non synthetic actually can goop up on warn seals and create a new seal...whereas the introduction of Synthetics do their job in cleaning the goop out....but that makes the leaks reoccur

But the question again, Does Amsoil or any other motor oil other than Pennzoil regular 20w-50 have additives to aid in the reduction of oil viscosity break down?

-Jonathan

 

[mkIIIman089]

Well, from that obnoxous commercial thats always on SPEED; Castrol GTX does have additives to help prevent thermal breakdown. I don't beleive thats synthetic right?

As far as Amsoil... I didn't know that they even made a non synthetic solution, lol. But from the extreme quality of their other products (I use em all almost) I would say that you can trust them to make an oil that will not break down.

 

[siman]

Castrol... :barf:

What sparked my thought was that today I took a long highway cruise to my grandfathers church that he pastors at....about a 45 minute highway drive around 70-120mph average speed....yes, thats not a typo...no one was around

I noticed over the past week that my oil pressure has been gradually dropping...though I know my rear main is still leaking, I always fill her up every two days! So she always has a full oil pan!

It was right on 40lbs the whole way...I know that the bypass vavles open at 40lbs...but I usually spike above that...cruising is usually around 50-60lbs which is what I like to see....

I was just walking into autozone ( with brother to get some wiring for his project) and saw that Mobile or someone had a 20w-50 synthetic mix...which you rarely see in synthetic form....guess becuase the new turbo diesel trucks out now?

But yes, I think I will try to get some Amsoil, and fill my LSD pumpkin with some KAAZ fluid...it has friction modifiers that help grip better....my friend put it in his 300zx rear diff'd 240 sr20 ride a while back and it did wonders!

-Jonathan

 

[siman]

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aro.aspx

Here it is..the 20-50 synthetic...your right, they dont make a non synthetic...

thought they SAY I can MIX the non synthetic ( didnt give out manufacturers names) and their oil together to make a tsudo synthetic blend essentially...

MIXING AMSOIL
AMSOIL High Performance Synthetic 20W-50 Motor Oil is compatible with conventional petroleum oils; however, mixing AMSOIL 20W-50 with a conventional oil will shorten the drain period of AMSOIL 20W-50. Engine oil additives or after-market products are not recommended for use with AMSOIL 20W-50.

Its just the "detergents" that have me worried...the cleaning agents ment to get out all the sludge...

What if the turbo oil seals are warn...and when i put in some of the Amsoil Synthetic, they seals of sludge get cleaned and start to leak?

Should I try a 30/70 or synthetic/nonsynthetic blend? My friend Kris (mk3_300) went from non, then to full synthetic, now he smokes like CRAZY....needs a rebuild LOL...

-Jonathan

 

[mkIIIman089]

That Amoil is the exact stuff that I use now. Though I don't know how worn my seals were when I bought the car a year ago using the synthetic has not turned up any leaks actually. My turbo has 104k on the clock and the rest of my motor has 75, only oil i see is a relatively tiny amount in the IC pipes from the PCV system, just for comparison...

 

[siman]

That Amoil is the exact stuff that I use now. Though I don't know how worn my seals were when I bought the car a year ago using the synthetic has not turned up any leaks actually. My turbo has 104k on the clock and the rest of my motor has 75, only oil i see is a relatively tiny amount in the IC pipes from the PCV system, just for comparison...

So you dont have any "blue" smoke comming out of the exhaust ( to tell if your turbo or valve stem seals are gone)? Do you have the stock exhaust or a 3" unit ( like me)?

EDIT: never mind:

Blitz Nur Spec
Random tech DP
jblmk3 turbo elbow
test pipe
HTS hoses
Apexi intake

I just sent a question to their tech guys regaurding the mixing of the two together.......

I know my valve stem seals and motor seals are fine...I have 8K miles on the full rebuild! But its just the 30-40K mile turbo that bothers me...the seals in it at least!

I guess when I hear back from the experts there on mixing is when I will make an educated "guess" on what I should do. In the meantime, keep the comments coming!

-Jonathan

 

[mkIIIman089]

Nope, no blue for me. Only smoke I have ever heard someone see come out of my car was black; and I think its just because perofrmance parts were removed just before that and it may have been just re-learning the fuel curve. That was the only time it has done even that.

Hmm... need to update that thinger to include my PWR...

 

[siman]

Nope, no blue for me. Only smoke I have ever heard someone see come out of my car was black; and I think its just because perofrmance parts were removed just before that and it may have been just re-learning the fuel curve. That was the only time it has done even that.

Hmm... need to update that thinger to include my PWR...

Those PWR's are HUMUNGOUS! Mk3_300 (kris) has one...that thing is just HUGE!
Props for such an awsome product LOL...

but back on topic :wavey:

 

[mk3forme]

Guys I dont know if any of you like mobil 1 synthetic but they now have 5w40 and 0w40 weights which have the best flow rates but still offer the protection of 40 weight oil. The 0w40 comes standard from the factory in high performance motors like the corvette, benz AMG, Dodge Srt 10 and others. I dont want to use 20 weight in my car as its too thick when cold and dont want to have to worry about season changes in between oil changes. I also dont live in a year around warm climate. Just some info for ya.

 

[siman]

Guys I dont know if any of you like mobil 1 synthetic but they now have 5w40 and 0w40 weights which have the best flow rates but still offer the protection of 40 weight oil. The 0w40 comes standard from the factory in high performance motors like the corvette, benz AMG, Dodge Srt 10 and others. I dont want to use 20 weight in my car as its too thick when cold and dont want to have to worry about season changes in between oil changes. I also dont live in a year around warm climate. Just some info for ya.

One bad thing about that oil...our tolerances are too big for a 0 weight upon startup....thats litterally as runny as water! In my 02' civic Si...yes the egg cars...It ran 0w-20 from the factory, the thinnest oil in a car period! When I would change the oil...it was like pouring water!

I dont think I would trust a O weight oil...only 20W or more.

 

[mk3forme]

correct me if Im wrong Siman, but the 0w or 5 w or 10w ect is a number that determines the flow factor of the oil. The second number is the weight of the oil. In that case the lower the first number the better because the oil will get to vital engine parts at startup cause it will flow much faster at cold temps than say a 20w oil.

 

[siman]

correct me if Im wrong Siman, but the 0w or 5 w or 10w ect is a number that determines the flow factor of the oil. The second number is the weight of the oil. In that case the lower the first number the better because the oil will get to vital engine parts at startup cause it will flow much faster at cold temps than say a 20w oil.

Yes, its great to have a faster flowing oil on startup.....
BUT:

A lower viscosity oil say a 0w will not give you enough oil pressure upon start up, unless you have a new honda like my previous 02' Si. The tolerances alone can help aid in a 0 weight oil on start up have the oil pressure needed.....smaller spaces with less oil weight still give you good oil pressure on start up and only gets better when the oil warms and gets to a 20 weight.

Thats why I am running, and most guys run, a 20 weight ( 20w-50 ) on the 7m....its just built like an old V8 LOL. The tolerances arent as tight....so you NEED a thick oil upon start up to keep the metal surfaces from rubbing together! So when the oil warms with the motor the oil is at a 50 weight to provide the MOST oil pressure you can get!

On a side note, the oil isnt totally "gone" from the block when you start the motor......oil is present just not in a "running motor" amount...its stagnant...so you will always have oil available on start up...just not the pressure...another reason to go with a heavier weight.

better safe than sorry. I dont buy oil for start up flow performance...rather buy it for protection against metal to metal contact. You get the best of both worlds with a Synthetic 20W-whatever blend.....10w-40 would be the LOWEST I would go...

Heck I think IJ is running a 30w-60 Amsoil syn. blend. :icon_conf

-Jonathan

 

[mk3forme]

Ok point taken Siman thanks for the info. So dont you agree that 20w50 might a be a dangerous choice in say the winter time? I mean that weight oil has to be like molasses at cold temps and might take too much time to thin down before its giving the protection it should?

 

[siman]

Ok point taken Siman thanks for the info. So dont you agree that 20w50 might a be a dangerous choice in say the winter time? I mean that weight oil has to be like molasses at cold temps and might take too much time to thin down before its giving the protection it should?

Yes. Thats when I probably would go with a 10w-40 or if I could find it, 0w-40. Becuase you do want the flow in the winter..but when the motor gets to operating temp, you definantly want the protection!

We all know how much we love to drive our cars fast in the winter! Turbo's LOVE cold whether! :biglaugh:

-Jonathan

 

[bluemax]

The idea of using the thinnest weight oil when the engine is cold is to get the oil up into all the parts in the engine. That's when you get most of the wear because when the engine sits for a long period, the oil coating all the parts start to drain off and you lose lubrication.

 

[mkIIIman089]

You guys are talking of non-synthetic oils correct? Because I noticed that when I compared my 20w-50 against some non-synthetic oil of a lesser weight the synthetic was still thinner in the cold weather then the dino oil.

 

[mk3forme]

Well unfortunately Siman I have no experience with a Turbo car in the winter time since im just getting into them. I have 3 cars now, 2 of them turbo and 1 with a blown head gasket. I bought the turbo im driving now originally for parts, as I wasnt sure it would run. But I got it running and man is this car fun! And this thing has a,I assume, hard run 148,000 miles on it. I cant believe the difference in this turbo and my NA which I have had since 88. I current am running 10w40 with an oil Additive by Lucas that you can buy at Advance. Another supra owner recommended it at it really does what he said. REally boosts the oil pressure, especially when its first started and keeps higher pressure when warm too. This stuff is like honey out of the bottle and is pure petroleum. Something for you guys to consider.

Mk3man that would be an interesing experiment when it get cold out again between synthetic and regular oil. I never thought about comparing them in cold temp. Sounds like another advantage to synthetics in the cold temps.

 

[siman]

My #1 goal is to see spending ($) advantages over dyno oil compared to synthetics....My Pennzoil is arond $2.40 a quart, where Amsoil Synthetic is $6, and Valvoline is near $6. I change my oil every 2-3K miles...where if I had synthetic It would be around 3-5K miles.....

would I benefit from synthetic from a price point, possibly.

It does have some additives to clean the motor, but since the turbo is 60K miles old and used to having dyno oil ( according to the previous owners records at Jiffy Lube :yuck Me running synthetic would be a toss up on the life of the turbo seals....after I change the oil. BUT If I run some type of additive in there like the Lucas oil treatment, and/or the militec ( at the same time ) I might save the seals, and reap the benefits of the synthetic at the same time.

Just a thought,

-Jonathan

 

[bluemax]

There are two types of synthetic oils. The real synthetic type, which are like Amsoil o Mobile 1, and the engineered natural oil such as Castrol Syntec. The real synthetic oils are better as far as lasting much longer and have better lubrication properties. The rated viscosity of the oils are identical. All 10W-40 oils will have cold viscosity of a 10 straight weight oil and viscosity of a 40 straight weight oil when hot when tested to the standard specification.

The viscosity is managed using viscosity modifier additives. The oil is basically the same, but additives are introduced to obtain different properties, such as multi- viscosity or anti-foaming.

You can run a synthetic oil 10k miles easily. My Audi friends tell me that Audi recommends changing (synthetic) oil every 10k. Oil doesn't really loose any properties. Some additives do wear off. But for the most part, the oil gets "dirty" or contaminated which causes it to loose the lubrication properties. Synthetic oil isn't as affected by the contamination because they are purer from the start than natural oil. Natural oil has a lot of other stuff in them than just the oil compounds.

 

[siman]

There are two types of synthetic oils. The real synthetic type, which are like Amsoil o Mobile 1, and the engineered natural oil such as Castrol Syntec. The real synthetic oils are better as far as lasting much longer and have better lubrication properties. The rated viscosity of the oils are identical. All 10W-40 oils will have cold viscosity of a 10 straight weight oil and viscosity of a 40 straight weight oil when hot when tested to the standard specification.

The viscosity is managed using viscosity modifier additives. The oil is basically the same, but additives are introduced to obtain different properties, such as multi- viscosity or anti-foaming.

You can run a synthetic oil 10k miles easily. My Audi friends tell me that Audi recommends changing (synthetic) oil every 10k. Oil doesn't really loose any properties. Some additives do wear off. But for the most part, the oil gets "dirty" or contaminated which causes it to loose the lubrication properties. Synthetic oil isn't as affected by the contamination because they are purer from the start than natural oil. Natural oil has a lot of other stuff in them than just the oil compounds.

so are you nudging me to go with synthetic? LOL :rofl: