1jz and 2jz bottem end.
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Changing the Deck height alone, would do nothing for displacement, it would only alter the compression ratio (assuming all else is equal).
To increase the displacement, you need any one of the three:
larger bore
larger stroke
more cylinders
(PS: the magazine quote you included mentioned an increase in the bore)
To increase the displacement, you need any one of the three:
larger bore
larger stroke
more cylinders
(PS: the magazine quote you included mentioned an increase in the bore)
ma71supraturbo said:
....and Porsche upped the size from 3.6 to 3.8 liters......just from BORE...
what happens if you increase the deck height.......that is ADDING to the motor....
People tend to think of this in metal terms...adding girth....well thats partially right.
The other way is just finding out what you can increase in size and keep the others the same to increase HP or TQ. Toyota did it the other way...... and they came out with a measly .5 liters bigger of displacement over ALL 6 cylinders...
now again. Imagine .5 liters spread over 6 cylinders...that is NOT MUCH AT ALL.
that is basically the difference in deck height alone. The extra height made the extra .5 liters...the BLOCK is the culprit of the "mysterious" .5 liters.
Porsche just increased the bore......kept the same crank and called it .2 liters bigger.....you could say thats a "stroked" motor....
I could just hear someone saying " yeah this new Carrera S has the STROKED 3.8 liter motor".....
.......
Yes. From the numbers in the quote, the engine would have grown from 3.735 to 3.972 liters.siman said:
Yes, but not increasing displacement.
A "stroked" engine has a longer stroke than its predecessor, so no, the new engine would be called "overbored."
BORE = the diameter of the cylinder
Stroke = The "throw" of the piston from BDC to TDC.
The volume traveled in the cylinder times 6 (# of cylinders) equals the displacement... Changing the height of the block makes no difference in the volume that the piston covers
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had this one saved from a while back:
http://www.answers.com/topic/engine-displacement
NOTE: they only touch on USA's ways of increasing displacement ( or our ways of CALCULATING displacement).
And IJ, stop with the belittling comments and questions. If you have ZERO positive or just straight forward facts to state about the 1jz or 2jz....dont reply at all, please.
-Jonathan
http://www.answers.com/topic/engine-displacement
NOTE: they only touch on USA's ways of increasing displacement ( or our ways of CALCULATING displacement).
And IJ, stop with the belittling comments and questions. If you have ZERO positive or just straight forward facts to state about the 1jz or 2jz....dont reply at all, please.
-Jonathan
Thats the point. NO ONE has called the 2jz a stroked motor. Not even TOYOTA themselves.
its just an egine with increased size....displacement....or LITERS....
Way back when i touched on that, everyone thought i was saying "the 2jz is a stroked motor"...when i was just trying to say where they got the extra .5 liters from when the cranks were identicle....
and it all went down hill becuase people just did not comprehend what i was trying to say.
All in all,
Toyota wanted more torque out of the 1jz. What they did was add internal girth to the motor.
1. They already had a awsome strong block.
2. They already had a awsome crank
3. They already had forged pistons ready to take a pounding.
What they didnt have was Torque ( in higher HP applications).
They needed some way to increase tq WITHOUT changing the crank stroke.
So they revised the block ( added height) to accomodate larger sized ( length and width) rods, these were just HEAVIER and had a LARGER mass to give the NEW motor the Extra kick at low RPM's that the 1jz didnt have ( at least it did at HIGH rpms, where tq is useless).
That is my point. That is what toyota did. The 2jz is NOT stroked. It was massaged and renamed.
its just an egine with increased size....displacement....or LITERS....
Way back when i touched on that, everyone thought i was saying "the 2jz is a stroked motor"...when i was just trying to say where they got the extra .5 liters from when the cranks were identicle....
and it all went down hill becuase people just did not comprehend what i was trying to say.
All in all,
Toyota wanted more torque out of the 1jz. What they did was add internal girth to the motor.
1. They already had a awsome strong block.
2. They already had a awsome crank
3. They already had forged pistons ready to take a pounding.
What they didnt have was Torque ( in higher HP applications).
They needed some way to increase tq WITHOUT changing the crank stroke.
So they revised the block ( added height) to accomodate larger sized ( length and width) rods, these were just HEAVIER and had a LARGER mass to give the NEW motor the Extra kick at low RPM's that the 1jz didnt have ( at least it did at HIGH rpms, where tq is useless).
That is my point. That is what toyota did. The 2jz is NOT stroked. It was massaged and renamed.
Im confused what is the point of this. not to be an ass an all, but from what ive read are u trying to say that the 2j is just a little bit better than the 1j or no?
a rotary uses the measure of combustion chamber size as the displacement. You cannot increase the displacement that way simman. There are only two ways to increase displacement on any given motor(except the rotory) and everyone here has listed them. These rules apply to any given motor. IJ and the others are correct. He does not have to have any knowledge of the 1jz or 2jz at all. All engines are this way. It applies to everything, from four wheeler engines to motorcycle engines to car engines. Japan couldn't just invent a new way to magically make displacement from nothing, it has to be done by stroke or overbore.
No it does not.
and please seperate your sentences Gixxer....LOL Feels like i am reading a vision chart looking through a school of fish!
DC34DC311,
The point is that Toyota did not use a stroked crank assymbly to get the extra .5 liters of displacement for the 2jz.
And some people cant comprehend the object in total size being that is the extra .5 liters.
and please seperate your sentences Gixxer....LOL Feels like i am reading a vision chart looking through a school of fish!
DC34DC311,
The point is that Toyota did not use a stroked crank assymbly to get the extra .5 liters of displacement for the 2jz.
And some people cant comprehend the object in total size being that is the extra .5 liters.
And unfortunantly i cannot log in to SF to PM Orin, my browser is messed up and has me logged in as 91supraturbo or something...and i cant log him/her out....weirdest crap.
So Toyota just made it .5 liters bigger just by making the block bigger and heavier rods. So if Siman is wrong then how did they make the displacment bigger in the 2jz even though cranks are the same. Is the bore size bigger in the 2jz?
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Siman i got news for you and IJ and Shawndude are correct and as always science is right. you are wrong/
Simple math. The strokes ARE differnet in the 1jz and the 2jz. There is no doubt about that. Rod length does NOT change the displacement OR stroke and niether does deck height (all things being equal) if the stroke is the same (ie what is more 2 liters of coke or 2 liters or pepsi??) Rod length affect the angular foces and to a certain point piston velocity.
Simple math. The strokes ARE differnet in the 1jz and the 2jz. There is no doubt about that. Rod length does NOT change the displacement OR stroke and niether does deck height (all things being equal) if the stroke is the same (ie what is more 2 liters of coke or 2 liters or pepsi??) Rod length affect the angular foces and to a certain point piston velocity.
By easy math.
They didnt use the US manufacturers tables to calculate displacement at all...rather they made a new way...just like porsche can claim a freaking .2 liters more just from WIDER pistons....that is an obvious enlargement...
and the BLOCK of the 2jz is larger.
Every damn person keeps on trying to make a point about "STROKED"....uggghhhhhh
its not stroked. This is why i partially gave up the first freaking time....people just didnt get what i was saying....
Maybe this is why the Japanese didnt let us know how they did it....they new it would turn into a fiasco?
Or they know us Americans are stuck in our ways and wont try to let in a new type of displacement calculation ( basing off size of the block rather than the actual internal size....)
They didnt use the US manufacturers tables to calculate displacement at all...rather they made a new way...just like porsche can claim a freaking .2 liters more just from WIDER pistons....that is an obvious enlargement...
and the BLOCK of the 2jz is larger.
Every damn person keeps on trying to make a point about "STROKED"....uggghhhhhh
its not stroked. This is why i partially gave up the first freaking time....people just didnt get what i was saying....
Maybe this is why the Japanese didnt let us know how they did it....they new it would turn into a fiasco?
Or they know us Americans are stuck in our ways and wont try to let in a new type of displacement calculation ( basing off size of the block rather than the actual internal size....)
the size of the rod comes into play as well Figgie. The DEPTH of the cylinder bore comes into play AGAIN Figgie.
Those all come into play in the over all calculation FIGGIE.
Should i repeat myself so many times? Can you people not read, nor understand my very realistic hypothesis?
Those all come into play in the over all calculation FIGGIE.
Should i repeat myself so many times? Can you people not read, nor understand my very realistic hypothesis?
siman said:
ok i had enough of your fucking stupidity. Go google displacement. It is all the same shit. Area of cylinder by the height of TRAVEL of the piston in said cylinder by the amount of clyinders you fucking nimrod. You can not be that fucking dense????
They (the rods) DO NOT COME INTO FUCKING CALCULATION!!!! This shit is basic calculus and PHYSICS!!!
The rods, do not under any circumstance, in this universe, change displacement. Just like if the cylinder it self was a fucking mile long. If the piston still only travels 88mm... the displacement is the SAME if the same cylinder is only 10 feet long or 12 inches long. DISPLACEMENT DOES NOT CHANGE YOU FUCKING IMBECIL!!!
let see Sir Isaac Newton or Siman..Newton or Siman... somehow i think Newton knew what the fuck he was talking about when he came up with calculus... :icon_roll
figgie said:
wow....are you mad? or.......
what is there to get so discouraged about? hehehehehehe :rofl:
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